Shut down with supercharger in sight

[cpa]

The Audi E tron can not get the range of a Tesla.
Audi has limited access to the top and bottom of the battery because they do not trust people to not abuse their batteries.
Charging to 100% and running the battery down to 0% is battery abuse in a Tesla because Tesla allows access to a larger part of the battery. These are the same people that will complain about range loss or slower charging speed after they abuse their battery.
Then they will want Tesla to replace the battery for free. Take care of your battery and you will enjoy your car for a very long time.

Unless of course Tesla decides to shave 20+ miles off range by capping the cell voltage at 4.09 instead of the initial 4.2 or by reducing Supercharger speeds by 50% so a 20%-75% charge takes an hour instead of 30 minutes or so. If Tesla can do this sleight-of-hand without explanation to those cars that are part of the aging fleet, who know what Tesla might do in the future with their newer models?

Those of us who are subject to one or both of these limitations are enjoying our cars less and less despite our assiduous attention to our battery's health.

 

[Evoforce]

The Audi E tron can not get the range of a Tesla.
Audi has limited access to the top and bottom of the battery because they do not trust people to not abuse their batteries.
Charging to 100% and running the battery down to 0% is battery abuse in a Tesla because Tesla allows access to a larger part of the battery. These are the same people that will complain about range loss or slower charging speed after they abuse their battery.
Then they will want Tesla to replace the battery for free. Take care of your battery and you will enjoy your car for a very long time.

For one thing, the Tesla BMS protects the battery from going to zero voltage. It cuts the battery off to protect it from over discharging. It cuts the power within the acceptable range of voltage to not let it over discharge or overcharge.

Most if not all of the people complaining have a legitimate complaint. We don't know the truth behind what Tesla is doing with #chargegate and #rapidgate. You are making accusations and assumptions that are not founded.

 

[Evoforce]

David 99, am I to understand that you were towing a trailer with a model S? I didn’t think that was possible with the model S. Or do you have a model X?

A model S will tow Great!

 

[Babaron]

Since the owners manual clearly states the Model S is never to be used for towing, I can’t help but wonder if the shutdown was premature due to the increased load on the battery due to the trailer. I believe the OP suspected this as well. It makes sense.

 

[Kenz]

I'm not asking for 2 more minutes to floor it. I'm asking for a less dangerous transition. How about 30-45 seconds of very limited power. 20 kW for 45 seconds would help me get out of the freeway.

I like the idea of power limiting the car for the last few miles of range.
Maybe if the car was power limited when it gets to 5% or less it would keep people from getting stranded or worse damage the battery.
Maybe at 5% limit speed to 50 mph, at 4% limit to 40 mph, at 3% limit to 30 mph, at 2% limit to 20 mph and at 1% limit to 10 mph.

 

[idoco]

@David99, I know you said you weren't paying attention, so this tip may not help, but I once was pretty tight en route to a Supercharger and decided to drop my trailer a few miles away from the charger, go charge, and come back to pick it back up. Having the car untethered on that last leg made it possible for me to make it.

If nothing else, a tip for others that are pulling a load in the future.

Same here. Arrived at SC while towing to discover that SC completely lost power just as I arrived. Next nearest SC was ~25 miles away in the opposite direction. Had to leave the trailer at the SC, drive to the nearest SC , then drive back to pick up my trailer.

To add insult to injury I had to deal with mall security on the phone. They weren't happy about a trailer with no attached car parked in their lot.

 

[Richthegolfer]

It was bound to happen to me. For years I was bragging that I regularly drive my car down to single digits and it has never shut down. Now it finally did. And to punish me a little extra for my big mouth, it happened at 3:30 am just before the exit for the supercharger. I could literally see it. There goes the theory that the car will allow you to go a little extra if you are heading to a charger.

It was totally my own fault. I was pulling a trailer and my energy consumption was about double. At higher discharge rates the voltage drops faster and earlier at the end. I had 1 mile left when it shut down.

A few things to keep in mind when that happens:
Pull over as soon as you can. You have 5-10 seconds from the message popping up to loosing all motor power.

Since the 12 Volt battery isn't charged any more, get out of the car and let it be. This is your best bet to keep the 12 Volt battery alive until the tow truck arrives. Roll down the windows. When the 12 Volt battery dies opening or closing the door can break the windows.

Remember 'tow mode' is under the service tab.

Always have one of those external battery chargers for your phone. You are going to make many calls and do a lot of Googleing to find nearby chargers, and take lots of pictures and videos of your adventure LOL

The tow attachment thingy that came with my car is under the carpet in the frunk and you have to take the nose cone off to attach it. Just to mess with you when you are already stressed out, Tesla used a left tightening thread on it. WTF? I recommend making yourself familiar with your car and how it works so you know what to do in the situation.

One of those compact jump start battery packs can be a life saver. If you have to wait very long and the 12 Volt battery dies on you, you can't even plug in to charge the car. You first have to bring the 12 Volt system alive. One of those little batteries will do the job.

Always have a jacket and extra cloths in your car. Prepared as I am I was in my flip flops and shorts coming from California and freezing my butt off waiting at night in Iowa.

I wish Tesla would give the driver a little more time before cutting off power. The time you have might not be enough on a busy freeway and find a safe place to stop. There is zero heads up. I had ScanMyTesla app running and couldn't see any indicator that would have given a hit. The only thing that gives you some idea is the power limiter. If it's down to 80 kW, you are very close to a shut down. In general it helps a lot to drive very carefully and gentle when the battery is very low. By driving super careful I was able to get to 0 % without a shut down countless times. In this case, I didn't pay attention and kept driving at normal speed. With the trailer that was 60-80 kW.

 

[VT_EE]

It didn’t warn you? The gauge goes yellow, then red, and are annoyed that on a 300 mile range vehicle it may be off by a few hundred yards?

It also flashes warnings that you won’t make your destination. What more can the car do?

The OP likes to live on the edge. His experience is very helpful for the rest of us though.

 

[David99]

I am a little more cautious now with pulling the trailer. The problem is without one you can drive with very low power. With a trailer you can't. So if it gets close you can try to slow down but you won't be able to get the consumption down enough.

The other problem is that pulling a trailer (or going very fast without one) is discharging the battery at a higher rate. This will make the voltage drop lower thus making the entire process less efficient. And to make it worse, when a battery is discharged at a higher rate the voltage tends to drop faster at the end. You will see the power limits coming in earlier and stronger. Considering that I kept going normal with such high power draw, I think the car making it to 1 miles left was pretty good! I did a test a few months ago driving the car to the shut down point just to see how far I could go. I drove very carefully and it only drove 3 miles after it showed 0. So all things considered the BMS is calculating pretty good.

Another interesting fact. When the car shuts down the battery percentage slides down. It showed -5% after one hour after the shutdown. The BMS gets confused. On the next supercharger sessions it would only charge to 92% and finish. When I drove to down to say 5%, the battery voltage that was much higher than usual for this percentage. So it seemed the entire scale of shifted. It stayed like this at the next 8 superchargers. Only when I arrived and charged it on AC, the BMS would finally adjust itself to normal.

As for the gradual power limiting when it reaches zero. Tesla actually already does it. The power limiter goes down more and more as you get closer to zero. But it's just a small orange line and usually the limit is pretty high so it doesn't affect normal driving. I'm thinking more about a slightly longer grace period when it shuts down to be able to get to a safe place.

 

[CuriousG]

I'm not asking for 2 more minutes to floor it. I'm asking for a less dangerous transition. How about 30-45 seconds of very limited power. 20 kW for 45 seconds would help me get out of the freeway.

But if you've ignored all warning signs already, what good is another warning if you'll ignore it like a check engine light?

 

[Evoforce]

But if you've ignored all warning signs already, what good is another warning if you'll ignore it like a check engine light?

You can get warnings but if you are not near a place to charge you are going to press it to get as close as you can get to the nearest charger. Towing is tricky to do as it uses a varying amount of energy based on the weight of load that you are towing as well as elevation changes and temperature drop, wind etc.

I laugh that some just don't get that this can happen to anyone and especially while towing. When you can only get 80-115 miles per charge, and yes it does easily vary that much with the same load, it is challenging to find enough chargers along your route.

You may have to face unhooking your trailer and coming back for it too while hoping that it or the load isn't stolen. The really aggravating part is when you get to a charger and it is not working. When you get such short range, you have to rely on other charging networks beyond Tesla Superchargers.

All of that being said, Tesla is a great towing vehicle with a low center of gravity, plenty of vehicle weight, and lots of torque! Towing heavy loads long distances does take navigation skills to cover all of the variables and sometimes there are just surprises that pop up.

 

[CuriousG]

I laugh that some just don't get that this can happen to anyone and especially while towing. When you can only get 80-115 miles per charge, and yes it does easily vary that much with the same load, it is challenging to find enough chargers along your route.

I get that for someone that lives in Arizona where you have a limited amount of Superchargers available, but not for being in California or back east where Superchargers are densely packed. Until Superchargers are 25-50 miles away from everyone, towing should not be a first choice with a Tesla unless it's a relatively short trip or be prepared for long wait times since you have to charge more frequently.

I was at a Supercharger a few weeks ago and I saw a couple had unhitched their cargo while they charged in a BevMo parking lot. They came back to hitch their load and it took quite a bit of time for them to get hooked back up. Since I've never towed anything in my life, I don't know what's involved. In that time, they were sticking out a bit in the parking lot and another lady had started to back out and hit their Model X. It looked minor as they just exchanged information and went on their way. Guess I should have offered my dashcam video of the event.

 

[cduzz]

A question for someone who knows things --

Is it possible that the car's preconditioning for supercharging kicked in and wiped out substantial fractions of the remaining range?

Hopefully the preconditioning logic is "am I above 20%? If so warm up batteries."

One of the central mysteries is "I had X% or N miles and suddenly it went to zero." This is exactly the behavior that the gauge is trying to avoid -- nobody cares (much) if you've got 200 or 203 or 199 miles left when you have 200ish miles left; everybody cares if they have 19 miles or 22 miles if the station is 21 miles away.

I personally got to play the range game when I rented a Tesla a couple years ago; my family wanted to see crater lake and so we went; the car said that I'd have -15% battery when I got back. Uh Oh. There was a Destination charging station there, so we charged there and we left when the car said that we'd get to the next station with 10%, and I drove like a eco warrior prius on the way back, but it was still an anxious drive back for quite a while. I felt "safe" when I was 20 miles away and the car said that I would land with 20%.

 

[Rocky_H]

I am finding this odd how many people are suggesting that Tesla should "add" the feature of limiting power when the battery is low. They don't seem to realize that Tesla vehicles have always had this.

 

[cduzz]

I am finding this odd how many people are suggesting that Tesla should "add" the feature of limiting power when the battery is low. They don't seem to realize that Tesla vehicles have always had this.

I think it is a matter of degrees; how aggressively does it limit power?

If we're talking about features we'd like to add beyond fartmode, it'd be nice to have it (optionally) severely limit power once you hit 7%ish of battery capacity such that the max power is impossible to ignore.

I've seen my car limit AC at below 20%.

 

[Joelgjr]

LEFT THREADED IS NORMAL. this is not a Tesla thing.

 

[hill]

I could have written this comment over 1½hrs ago (especially knowing with the high winds that the utility company, rather than fix their aging infrastructure like laying power lines underground). In stead - it's written right now.... even knowing all too well I may lose pow

 

[Bridor]

My Tesla Model X died twice with 19 miles of range showing in the same trip. The first time it added eight hours to our trip (out of warranty with 150K miles) - I pushed it to a 110 plug and plugged in for an hour and then drove carefully to a nearby hotel that had a destination charger. They were gracious enough to let me plug in for a bit. The second time it died within a mile of the supercharger at Beaver, Utah. I coasted to within 20 feet of the supercharger and some people helped me to push it into a stall. It turns out my battery was unbalanced. I still do not know why the trip computer routed me through Utah from Washington with a 60D. Never again - I will go through California and on to Arizona from here on out.

Brent

 

[jimisbell]

OK. I admit I am sans Tesla.....for now. But I do have a 2000 Honda Insight. And I do have several gas cars. The Honda Hybrid has a gas engine when the battery goes dead. BUT I would NEVER run my gas tank down to 3oz of gasoline (that is three shot glasses full). 3 Oz of gasoline represents 1 mile. What am I missing here that Tesla drivers will run till only one mile is left? I try to get gas in my Lexus when it tells me I have 50 (Fifty) miles of gasoline left. Is the Tesla so reliable that you really think ONE mile is safe????? I dont have sympathy for you.......

 

[imthiazah]

My Tesla Model X died twice with 19 miles of range showing in the same trip. The first time it added eight hours to our trip (out of warranty with 150K miles) - I pushed it to a 110 plug and plugged in for an hour and then drove carefully to a nearby hotel that had a destination charger. They were gracious enough to let me plug in for a bit. The second time it died within a mile of the supercharger at Beaver, Utah. I coasted to within 20 feet of the supercharger and some people helped me to push it into a stall. It turns out my battery was unbalanced. I still do not know why the trip computer routed me through Utah from Washington with a 60D. Never again - I will go through California and on to Arizona from here on out.

Brent

A little off topic but wanted to ask, how has your Model X held up with that many miles? Especially the FWD and the auto present front doors. I don't have the option to purchase extended warranty anymore and curious to know what to expect when I reach those miles.