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Shut down with supercharger in sight

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by David99, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Kenz

    Kenz Member

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    There is no excuse. Some people like to live on the edge. I know people with gas cars that don't fill up till is says empty.
    Makes no sense to me. In an electric vehicles case it can also damage the battery. Make an extra stop along the way for 10 minutes, stretch your legs, get a coffee hit the restroom and go. The stress is not worth it. It is best to keep the battery between 20 - 80%. When you hit 20% look for a charger.
     
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  2. AnaBanana

    AnaBanana Member

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    Thanks for sharing. The things we can and do wrong are the most appreciated. Thanks.
     
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  3. jackbowers

    jackbowers Jack Bowers

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    Sometimes there are unavoidable situations where cutting it close is the only logical option. A couple of years ago I was towing my Bowlus trailer home from the L.A. area. While traveling North on I-5, the Santa Clarita Supercharger went off-line while I was en route to it. Running the numbers in my head (2 range miles for each mile driven; 12 extra miles per 1000 foot elevation gain) it looked like I could drive 50 mph and clear the Grapevine summit with about 10 miles of range, then regen down to Tejon Ranch. Given a lack of destination charging alternatives (the Castaic RV park was likely full at the time) I decided to go for it, knowing that I could un-hitch an exit or two before the summit if the math didn't work out. But it did.
     
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  4. Big Ike

    Big Ike Supporting Member

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    Great idea!
     
  5. Big Ike

    Big Ike Supporting Member

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    Just a quick shout out for your honesty and humility! I appreciate the tidbits that you've shared.
     
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  6. Potatoee

    Potatoee Member

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    This is a great thread. I am grateful that Tesla doesn't "dummy down" the car to protect me from myself and it exposes some of the engineering details to let me use the car as I see fit. I never agreed with having a BEV shut down prematurely to protect the car. There could easily be an emergency situation that would require taking the risk. We are all consenting adults (at least most of us ;-)), and I like that we can all take informed risks when it comes to how we use our cars. I think there is an analogy to FSD, WE are responsible for driving our cars and ensuring that we don't get into accidents. The only difference is that if we take chances by not being responsible drivers, we can hurt other people in addition to ourselves. Hands on the wheel people!

    I love driving an intelligent car.
     
  7. robert747400

    robert747400 New Member

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    My long range M3 quit at 7% battery power. I have emailed and called Telsa numerous times to find out if this is normal. No response or returned phone call???
     
  8. mikegre

    mikegre Supporting Member

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    "I was able to get to 0 % without a shut down countless times"

    You're not married, correct? How do I know? Whenever us married guys get the battery down to 10%, our wives start yelling at us.
     
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  9. Jack007

    Jack007 Member

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    Ok, you pretty much summed it up for me, except plan your route to get to supercharger BEFORE 20%. In 117K KM it's only been yellow half a dozen times. I came close but NEVER got to single digit estimates. This is in a 75D.
    However, I confess I didn't know I may or may not have a tow bar or how to operate it. So before I call people CIVILIANS (my worst swear word) I'll go look it up.
     
  10. Jjmboni

    Jjmboni Member

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    * Your Honda Hybrid can go over 400 miles on a tank of gas. A Tesla towing probably goes 100 miles or so (David99 would know more about that). So it's more likely that some people are pushing their cars to the limit given driving and trip distance.

    * I routinely drove my newly purchased cars to empty so I'd understand what it's like. That way I know how far I can "push it" at my comfort level. When I first got my MX I drove it to 0 miles left as I was coasting into my driveway. Now I know what the X does when it gets that low.

    * For some people, calling a Tow truck costs only $95 and some time. An ICE owner would pay that amount to fill their tank with gas! So I can see where some Tesla owners don't mind pushing it to Tow Truck levels since they're saving so much on gas anyway... :)
     
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  11. CuriousG

    CuriousG Active Member

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    The problem is, with time, what you perceive as being able to go to 0 may not be valid any longer.
     
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  12. Farmer

    Farmer Member

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    Modern gas or diesel vehicles can be damaged when run empty as well. Some electric fuel pumps can be damaged by running dry. Diesel fuel systems sometimes need to be purged of air, and so on.

    I became a 40 year driver this past spring and have yet to run out of fuel of any type in anything bigger than a lawn mower. I'm a wimp and just don't need that drama and aggravation in my life. My hat is off to all of you living the daring life.
     
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  13. fataldeadlock

    fataldeadlock Member

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    For road trips, it will be an issue until Superchargers are located every 25-50 miles. In my one year of driving a 2015 Model S 85, I have thus far encountered three scenarios where relying on the Tesla navigation could have got me stranded.

    1. Road Closure. Driving from Illinois along I-44 to Oklahoma, the interstate was unexpectedly shutdown due to flooding. The shortest detour added 15 miles and 45 minutes to my drive. As others have mentioned, planning your trip to 10-20% arrival charge may not always work when factors outside your control arise (detours, power outages, distance to nearest public charger).

    2. Remote Destinations. Driving to destinations that are not along the interstate. I took a day trip from Peoria, IL to Nauvoo, IL and back. Departing estimate said 15% to arrive back home. When setting out to depart home, the estimate dropped to 5%. Nearest supercharger was 116 miles away (2 hour detour) from Nauvoo, or I could drive 30 miles (40 minutes) out of the way for a 7.7 kw charger that would require another a minimum of 2 hours charging to even make the detour worth the effort. A definite 2.5 hour detour or risk it to make it home? Luckily, we made it home. Not sure if we would have made it had the outside temperature been 10-20 degrees colder.

    3. Inaccurate BMS Range Estimating. My 2015 Model S now has upwards of 65,000 miles on it. On a recent road trip, I found that car is now having trouble estimating the time required to charge above 85%. For example, I set the car to charge to 100% at home before the trip. Two hours after the car should be been done charging (NEMA 14-50), it is still estimating that it needs 1 hour to finish charging.

    Similar story as I stop at a Supercharger. I could stop to charge again in 60 miles, or charge up to 95% here and drive 180 miles to the next charger. I choose to aim for the 180 mile charger and set the car to charge to 100% at the Supercharger, it estimates 1 hr 10 minutes to full. Fine, I entertain myself with Netflix and come back 1 hr later, to which it still says 20 minutes remaining. I wait another 10 minutes and it still estimates 20 minutes remaining. To hell with it, it says I should arrive with 10% battery left so I set off with only ~90% charge. For the next 20-30 minutes of driving the estimated range is all over the place. For a few minutes, showing I need to slow down to 55 mph to reach my destination, then saying I will arrive with 15% charge. Once I drive for a bit, and the state of charge gets below 80%, the estimated range settles down and consistently says I will arrive with 7% charge. With conservative driving, I made it to the supercharger with 6% battery remaining.

    When the battery is above 80% or below 20%, the range estimate is wildly inaccurate. After searching these forums, I have come to the conclusion that this is a common occurrence for cars with miles on them. This saddens me, as my daily charge routine is to set it 80%. I charge the car to 100% 2-3 times per year for the occasional road trip, and have perhaps 12 supercharger stops per year.

    As I said, until Superchargers are located 25-50 miles in every direction and/or Level 2 chargers are available near every place of interest, there will be many circumstances that are out of your control. In my opinion, adding 2+ hours in detours for a road trip to compensate for lack of charging infrastructure is not reasonable. Therefore, there will be lots of people who push the range. Most times you will make it to your next charge sessions, sometimes you will end up stranded.
     
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  14. JBHinPA

    JBHinPA Member

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    Thanks for the info. I've gone down to 8 miles and wasn't worried. I see I should have been concerned.
     
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  15. BozieBeMe2

    BozieBeMe2 May I have this dance?

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    I just love it when you have screwed up AND, you own it, but thats still not enough
     
  16. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    That's something I would never recommend, as it is too risky. The car's energy projections are pretty good for a continuous drive, but for drive one way, park, sit, wait, cool down (hours), and then do the return trip back, that's almost like two separate trips, and it's going to have higher energy use starting back on the return and a 15% margin is pretty tight for two trips like that with no charging in between.

    I find it hard to believe that there could be many towns you could find that don't have some kind of Level 2 charging available. Can you name one? Almost every campground or RV park has Level 2 charging, and that's kind of a self-solving scenario, that the more remote you are away from large cities with J1772, the more campgrounds and RV parks there are, so Level 2 is almost everywhere. I would find it hard to believe there is a route that really can't be done because of no level2 charging available. Painfully slow, yes, but doable.
     
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  17. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Well-Known Member

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    Screwed up on something you didn't know about would be different. You hopefully learn a lesson from that first time and don't do it again. It was the several years of telling people you could drive below 0 that makes this in the schadenfreude category. I admit I was kind of waiting for this moment, because I had seen him recommending that to people a lot over the years, which I knew was going to turn out badly since he wasn't learning his lesson about it. It's a bit like if you get really lucky playing Russian Roulette several times in a row, so you continually tell people it's not dangerous.
     
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  18. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Apples and oranges. You can't compare a gasoline car to an EV in this scenario. With a a gas car you can just pull I to the next gas station when you reach your comfort level. With an EV you simply don't have that luxury. I have driven 6000 miles with a trailer on my Model S. There are many sections where there is no chargers in between. It's a 120 mile leg with elevation climb. I have to make it. If I drive 45 I can barely make it. I'm not driving it low because I like living on the edge. I have no choice. Everyone on the freeway is already annoyed that I'm crawling at 45.

    And yes, after driving 240k miles in my Tesla, it has consistently been so accurate that I was able to drive it down to single digits.

    In an EV your range is limited and your charging options are limited. It's not a choice to maximize the available range, it's a necessity in some situations.
     
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  19. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    There is no charger when you reach 20%. It takes excessive amount of time to charge to 100% (unlike a gas tank).
    You can't compare gas and EV this way.
     
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  20. cch1

    cch1 Member

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    Annoying passengers and In-laws are fair game too.
     
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