Sick of being ICE'd by hybrids!

[Earl]

The only thing I can add to this is that the charging structure needs to not be a surprise. I want to know it before I make the reservation so that I can plan accordingly. Not over the phone by somebody that gets it wrong; I want it on the web site.

But idle fees or some form of enforcement encouragement for people to not block chargers all day long is unfortunately necessary.

There's a business opportunity here. Have a turnkey solution to install EVSE equipment at a hotel with software that plugs into common hotel management software so that things are automagically billed to the room with simple idle structures easy to choose by the management. Hotel managers are not going to want to deal with billing this stuff themselves--it's less hassle for them to just have charging be "free" by raising rates for everybody and then shrug it off when when a jerk blocks the charger all day long.

I guess the difference is the use of the hotel. If the hotel is the destination (like a resort or convention/conference at the hotel) and one is spending many days there, perhaps it makes sense to limit the time on the EVSE. If, like most of my trips, the hotel is an overnight stop or a place to sleep between days of meetings, its a different issue.
The time limit should be reasonable enough for me to charge all the way and get a night's sleep though. 3 hours on 6 kW level 2 is just plain a joke. The only thing dumber was a gas station back in the early 2010's that installed an early public Level 1 station -- with a 1 hour limit.

 

[brainhouston]

The end game will be that there will be charging stations at every parking space. Anything less is just lack of preparation on the side of the property owner in keeping up with the rollout of EVs.

to be fair, i don't think hotels even have enough parking spaces to cover full 100% booking at any given time...
so i don't see that ever happening..

I agree that 1st come basis should be somehow included n maybe steep price increase is not for hotels (rather something gradual) but some penalties should be there to prevent issues that OP posted about until EV chargers reach the rollout equivalent to gas stations.

Bottom line, 3hrs of Lv2 is better than nothing n will get u to the next DC charger probably.
This way every EV guest can be protected against flat bedding their car...

 

[Earl]

This way every EV guest can be protected against flat bedding their car...

I hardly think this is an issue to worry about. Guess-o-meters, decent range, and proliferation of chargers mean that, while I have done so in the distant past, one has to work hard to completely run out today. Anybody who arrives at a hotel out of charge has already blown it (speaking from personal experience, of course).

hotels even have enough parking spaces to cover full 100% booking at any given time...

The big problem I usually run into at hotels is a bunch of pickups towing trailers and blocking 5 or 6 spaces each.

I agree that 1st come basis should be somehow included n maybe steep price increase is not for hotels (rather something gradual) but some penalties should be there to prevent issues that OP posted about until EV chargers reach the rollout equivalent to gas stations.

Personally, I'd like to get a reservation for a charger at a hotel, just as I do a room and bed. That way, I'll know I can arrive late and empty, pull in, plug in, sleep, then leave early the next morning. For that, I'd pay an extra $20 - 30, especially in the winter.
As far as apartments or hotels go, I'd probably be ok with 12-hour limits. That would permit a good night's sleep before having to worry about moving.
As far as the OP's issue: I do believe that PHEVs have as much right to chargers as BEVs but I don't worry much about them. In the long run, there won't be many PHEVs. They're just a growing pain blip. Its just too expensive to put 2 powertrains in a vehicle. They've only served to delay the inevitable by the ICE companies. They're just wasting valuable capital with such short-sightedness and will be out of business in less than a decade unless they get bailed out by taxpayers (which, sadly, is likely).
I have seen the problem the OP described. We had a senior manager at my office who pretty much claimed a spot for his i3 PHEV right next to the front door. He'd charge in the morning, go out to lunch, then pull right back into the same space after lunch. When we became short on chargers, nobody wanted to raise a big stink with him. Gobs more charging stations were added and the problem went away.

 

[TunaBug]

The time limit should be reasonable enough for me to charge all the way and get a night's sleep though. 3 hours on 6 kW level 2 is just plain a joke. The only thing dumber was a gas station back in the early 2010's that installed an early public Level 1 station -- with a 1 hour limit.

Ahah. I missed that part in your previous post. Yeah, the limit definitely needs to be reasonable. Those are not.

 

[bradtem]

While Tesla has the locking done by the car, so you can't pull out a Tesla plug even after the charge is done, I thought most J1772 cars did not lock the plug in the port, but rather there is a physical latch which you can press which interrupts charging and lets you remove the plug. Do some cars have a lock on them which forbids that?

I do believe that all cars should release the lock after they are done charging, unless they detect they are using one's mobile EVSE. This allows charging stations to have 2 or 4 parking spaces with them and lets people switch after you have completed your charge -- or after the charging station decides you are finished, for example if it has a 2 hour time limit. For this, it need not stop you at 2 hours, but after 2 hours allow somebody else to come up and request to use it / tap their card, in which case it will stop the charge for the over-limit car and let you swap the plug -- if there are multiple spaces.

Truth is, apartments should just get more stations because nobody wants to be have to be coming down and moving cars or plugs. But they are too cheap.

There is another issue between plug in hybrids and BEVs. The PHEV wants the EVSE to save some money and emissions. Good, but the BEV needs the station to drive at all. The PHEV can still drive anywhere even if it doesn't get any charge. One might argue the system should be that any BEV can take the EVSE from a PHEV, though if they finish it can and should go back to the PHEV if it was not done. PHEVs usually don't take more than 1-2 hours so in long-term stalls (offices, apartments) it is particularly bad if they use it all night.

 

[Earl]

I thought most J1772 cars did not lock the plug in the port, but rather there is a physical latch which you can press which interrupts charging and lets you remove the plug.

That is correct. Most J-1772 connector cars can be simply disconnected whenever. However:
- some cars (Chevy Volt) will start honking when you unplug when they are locked.
- many J-1772 connectors can take a small lock to prevent them from being disconnected

I do believe that all cars should release the lock after they are done charging, unless they detect they are using one's mobile EVSE. This allows charging stations to have 2 or 4 parking spaces with them and lets people switch after you have completed your charge -- or after the charging station decides you are finished

back in the late '90's through ~2010, that was the generally accepted protocol for EV charging. Back then, there was only a small number of very dedicated EV drivers sharing a very limited public charging infrastructure.
They even created placards:

that folks could use to facilitate sharing chargers.
There were also guidelines for charger installers to try to install charging stations between multiple parking spaces so that 2 cars could park side by side so the 2nd one could unplug the 1st when it indicated.

There is another issue between plug in hybrids and BEVs. The PHEV wants the EVSE to save some money and emissions.

I have to disagree. Most PHEV folks I know want the EVSE for the same reason as BEV drivers. Some don't use any more gasoline than BEV driver and, use of an EVSE enables this, just as it does a BEV driver.
Personally, while I much prefer BEVs, I see PHEVs as having just as much right, both legally and morally, as BEVs when it comes to use of public charging infrastructure which avoids the need to burn gasoline.

The PHEV can still drive anywhere even if it doesn't get any charge.

Actually, since most BEVS have larger batteries compared to PHEVs, and most can fast charge, one can argue that BEVs aren't as dependent on local EVSEs as often as PHEVS. Often, they can use DCFCs if needed as well.

One might argue the system should be that any BEV can take the EVSE from a PHEV, though if they finish it can and should go back to the PHEV if it was not done.

This is arguable - as long as the PHEV is guaranteed enough time to fully charge before need, which is hard to do. Most BEV driver that I know of will unplug a PHEV just because they feel more entitled to the EVSE - which, I totally disagree with.

PHEVs usually don't take more than 1-2 hours so in long-term stalls (offices, apartments) it is particularly bad if they use it all night.

Most BEVs only take 1 - 2 hours to charge if charged every night as well. In fact, since many BEVs charge at 6 kW or more, while most PHEVs only charge an an anemic 3 kW, the BEVs take less time than the PHEVs.
Personally, I prefer to discourage any differentiation between the rights of PHEVs vs BEVs. Both are alternatives to ICE and their drivers tend to be similarly motivated. They should all be considered teammates.

 

[bradtem]

Most BEVs only take 1 - 2 hours to charge if charged every night as well. In fact, since many BEVs charge at 6 kW or more, while most PHEVs only charge an an anemic 3 kW, the BEVs take less time than the PHEVs.
Personally, I prefer to discourage any differentiation between the rights of PHEVs vs BEVs. Both are alternatives to ICE and their drivers tend to be similarly motivated. They should all be considered teammates.

Of course it depends. My most common use of public EVSEs -- really almost my only use -- is on road trips. In my home city, I charge at home, and don't need to charge during the day.

In particular I charge at hotels I stay at. It's very important to me -- it might even be essential, though it is now more common that I can go to a fast charger in the morning -- costing me 45 minutes of my time and $25 of electricity at fast charger rates -- if I am unable to charge at the hotel.

And so, if a PHEV takes the charging station and spends the night there, just so they can get 40 miles of electric range, I'm not going to be very happy with that situation. I really needed that EVSE, the PHEV need it for an hour as a convenience. Of course I am generally OK if the PHEV should unplug me in the morning, or even for an hour, to get their charge. That is not easy with a Tesla, though if I leave my phone number I can unlock the car remotely.

(I have proposed that Tesla have a system so that anybody can type my licence plate into the Tesla web site and send a text message to me, forwarded by Tesla including their number, or just delivered in the Tesla app, unless I opt out of this messaging. This would be good for all EVs, actually.)

I am happy for PHEVs to charge, but there should be a strong ethic that unless spare chargers are plentiful, they should make an effort to move once full. Of course, idle fees could make that happen.

I think that idle fees should be done smartly, though. Idle fees should only accrue when:

1. All stalls are in use in a multi-stall station
2. Another user has tapped and authenticated on any of the stations indicating a desire to charge

When a free station opens up, the next person in line should get notified and indeed the station should be reserved for them if they are close. If a charging session ends and all stations are in use, and somebody is waiting, the owner of that car should get notified idle fees are starting shortly.

If your session ends and others are free, you should get notified, and notified again that idle fees are starting if they fill up. Perhaps lower idle fees if nobody is waiting, high fees if somebody is waiting.

But no charging system is that smart. Superchargers do something like this, but they just put on idle fees if >=50% of chargers are in use. I don't see the need to actually charge them unless the station actually fills up.

In order to wait you do need the app for the station or a card because you don't want anybody to just push the button to cause fees to make grief. You must release your hold if you leave the area.

 

[RTPEV]

The whole hotel thing is one of the rare instances of "charging anxiety" that I experience.

Over the past two summers I have visited family in western New York (southern tier) where there were no fastchargers en route and very few L2 chargers. To give you a sense, the distance from the last supercharger en route to the next one was 343 miles (there is a new one that opened up since last summer, but that only cuts it down to 309 miles). There is a Supercharger with a 30 mile deviation that I could have used as a last resort though.

In one town, I know for sure there is no L2 charging available and if I'm lucky I can plug into 120V overnight if the spot near the side door is open, but of course that doesn't do me much good other than to replenish a bit of the driving around I did while in town. In the next town, there are at least some hotels with charging stations, one of which was brand new and wasn't even on Plugshare (or ChargePoint, even though it was a ChargePoint station) yet (but was listed on the hotel's web site).

So what's my strategy? Do I charge to 100% at the first Supercharger and hope that I can get enough 120V charging to make it to the second Supercharger (or keep trying any available L2s along the route?) Just plan on the 30 mile diversion to the other Supercharger? Risk it and hope that the hotel's charging station really does exist, works, and is not in use the night I am there?

It was even worse the the year before when we took the VW ID.4 and the 30-mile off route Supercharger was not in play, although there is now a CCS fastcharger that is only about 10 miles off route.

Ideally for hotel use, it would be good to have the following:

1. Positive (live) indication that a station is live. Preferably if the given network's site/app were reliable enough to be trusted, but at least show me a list of anonymized charging sessions that were logged on the charging station so I can be reasonably sure it was successfully used (I look at Plugshare too, but most of the time people don't bother to log their charges).
2. The ability to reserve a station for a given part of my stay, even if I have to pay extra for the privilege (peace of mind).
3. An expectation that the station will not be ICEd or otherwise blocked.

We may not need every parking spot able to charge, but at the opposite end of the spectrum, having only one or two stations at a given property is just unsettling and it does make it difficult to effectively plan a trip through areas that don't have a lot of coverage. Of course those are the same areas where property owners are likely to be behind the times and not proactively making sure that charging is available and reliable.

In the end, it worked out both years for me. The first year we stayed at a hotel with a Tesla and a J1772 charger (we used the J1772) and the hotel manager was reasonably knowledgeable about the chargers and coned it off for us (well, he tried and coned off the Tesla, but we had the VW that year...but the J1772 was open when we arrived).

The second year we stayed at the new hotel and I was quite nervous about it, but went with the "risk it" plan, knowing that worst case I could do the 30 mile diversion. But I also topped up more than I really needed to at the first Supercharger to account for the extra distance, local driving, vampire drain, etc. It sure would have been nice to just be able to count on being able to charge at the hotel.

 

[bradtem]

The whole hotel thing is one of the rare instances of "charging anxiety" that I experience.

Over the past two summers I have visited family in western New York (southern tier) where there were no fastchargers en route and very few L2 chargers. To give you a sense, the distance from the last supercharger en route to the next one was 343 miles (there is a new one that opened up since last summer, but that only cuts it down to 309 miles). There is a Supercharger with a 30 mile deviation that I could have used as a last resort though.

In one town, I know for sure there is no L2 charging available and if I'm lucky I can plug into 120V overnight if the spot near the side door is open, but of course that doesn't do me much good other than to replenish a bit of the driving around I did while in town. In the next town, there are at least some hotels with charging stations, one of which was brand new and wasn't even on Plugshare (or ChargePoint, even though it was a ChargePoint station) yet (but was listed on the hotel's web site).

So what's my strategy? Do I charge to 100% at the first Supercharger and hope that I can get enough 120V charging to make it to the second Supercharger (or keep trying any available L2s along the route?) Just plan on the 30 mile diversion to the other Supercharger? Risk it and hope that the hotel's charging station really does exist, works, and is not in use the night I am there?

It was even worse the the year before when we took the VW ID.4 and the 30-mile off route Supercharger was not in play, although there is now a CCS fastcharger that is only about 10 miles off route.

Ideally for hotel use, it would be good to have the following:

1. Positive (live) indication that a station is live. Preferably if the given network's site/app were reliable enough to be trusted, but at least show me a list of anonymized charging sessions that were logged on the charging station so I can be reasonably sure it was successfully used (I look at Plugshare too, but most of the time people don't bother to log their charges).
2. The ability to reserve a station for a given part of my stay, even if I have to pay extra for the privilege (peace of mind).
3. An expectation that the station will not be ICEd or otherwise blocked.

We may not need every parking spot able to charge, but at the opposite end of the spectrum, having only one or two stations at a given property is just unsettling and it does make it difficult to effectively plan a trip through areas that don't have a lot of coverage. Of course those are the same areas where property owners are likely to be behind the times and not proactively making sure that charging is available and reliable.

In the end, it worked out both years for me. The first year we stayed at a hotel with a Tesla and a J1772 charger (we used the J1772) and the hotel manager was reasonably knowledgeable about the chargers and coned it off for us (well, he tried and coned off the Tesla, but we had the VW that year...but the J1772 was open when we arrived).

The second year we stayed at the new hotel and I was quite nervous about it, but went with the "risk it" plan, knowing that worst case I could do the 30 mile diversion. But I also topped up more than I really needed to at the first Supercharger to account for the extra distance, local driving, vampire drain, etc. It sure would have been nice to just be able to count on being able to charge at the hotel.

A lot of hotels just have 1-2. It definitely was a "Hey, let's be green and support EVs" and it worked because usually you were the only one charging. That is changing.

The good news is soon it will become a real business need and maybe even reservation will be possible.

For now though, it's hard to stop ICEing. The problem is the ICE car is probably a guest too, and they really don't want to go to a lot of effort to piss of another guest if they can avoid it. Many hotels do ask for the licence plate of guests, but now to use it, to search the records and find out which guest has that car, and call them, maybe late at night? And what if it's a visitor -- do you tow them? Not an easy sell.

I think the answer will be high tech. Hotel charging stalls that are reserved, and have a screen saying "Reserved for <GUEST>, others will trigger alarm" would discourage a lot of ICE cars.

And indeed, if somebody parks there (radar) start flashing (not too bright) until they plug in or authenticate. And get brighter and make sounds (for a while) if they don't plug in for a while. (Or have a camera and make sounds if they walk away from the car without plugging in.)

If it's reserved, the driver must auth with some app or the hotel app or at the front desk, or charging stops after a short time and the lights flash. If cars have to back in you can also read licence plates for this. I don't want to have the app for every hotel I go to, so ideally there is a master app used over many hotels for reserved charging.

If there is a screen, though, you can also authenticate on the screen by knowing something about yourself that you provided when reserving, such as your first name, licence plate etc. No app needed. You need to stop the ICE before it starts, because nobody wants to involve the tow truck, especially not the hotel.

 

[Earl]

go to a fast charger in the morning -- costing me 45 minutes of my time and $25 of electricity at fast charger rates

Of course, when the ambient temperatures are -15F, its going to take a lot more than 45 minutes to fast charge -- better to charge to 90% upon arrival, when your battery is still warm.

(I have proposed that Tesla have a system so that anybody can type my licence plate into the Tesla web site and send a text message to me, forwarded by Tesla including their number, or just delivered in the Tesla app, unless I opt out of this messaging. This would be good for all EVs, actually.)

We used to leave our cell#'s (or in the EV1 days, our pager#) on the dash (see the attachment I showed previously in this thread) but, back then EV drivers on road trips were fairly tough pioneers with bigger concerns than sharing their mobile number publicly.

I think the answer will be high tech. Hotel charging stalls that are reserved, and have a screen saying "Reserved for <GUEST>, others will trigger alarm" would discourage a lot of ICE cars.

And indeed, if somebody parks there (radar) start flashing (not too bright) until they plug in or authenticate. And get brighter and make sounds (for a while) if they don't plug in for a while. (Or have a camera and make sounds if they walk away from the car without plugging in.)

If it's reserved, the driver must auth with some app or the hotel app or at the front desk, or charging stops after a short time and the lights flash. If cars have to back in you can also read licence plates for this. I don't want to have the app for every hotel I go to, so ideally there is a master app used over many hotels for reserved charging.

If there is a screen, though, you can also authenticate on the screen by knowing something about yourself that you provided when reserving, such as your first name, licence plate etc. No app needed. You need to stop the ICE before it starts, because nobody wants to involve the tow truck, especially not the hotel.

I think this and your proposal for Tesla to provide an anonymized messaging scheme are clever technical solutions (worthy of your Si Valley location), however, overall, I think it would be a lot cheaper to just install enough charging stations at parking spaces at hotels.
ICEing has become a lot less prevalent as more EVs are on the road and using charging stations. I only expect this to continue to improve.

 

[Rocky_H]

1) I'll still have to waken in the middle of the night to move my car

Yup. Like I said, I have little to no sympathy for being unwilling to experience the slightest bit of inconvenience to not monopolize shared resources. Seems you do, and that’s… well, exactly why we need the sorts of financial disincentives I’m proposing.

This response doesn't make any sense. This situation was at a hotel in Bend, OR where I went to stay and selected the hotel specifically because they said they had charging stations. But when when I went to check them out, I found that they had a 5 hour time limit and then would cut off and start charging idle fees.

So I didn't use them, and no one else did either. They just sat there, continually empty, because no one is willing to use them with that idiotic policy.

3 hours on 6 kW level 2 is just plain a joke.

That's what these were. At the maximum 5 hour usage limit, it would provide only 30 kWh. That would not have even half filled my car before it would stop and start charging idle fees. And why should someone who paid to be a guest there have to both interrupt their night's sleep AND not even fully get the use of the amenity? Short usage limit times on hotel slow charging stations is simply incorrect policy.

 

[bradtem]

Of course, when the ambient temperatures are -15F, its going to take a lot more than 45 minutes to fast charge -- better to charge to 90% upon arrival, when your battery is still warm.

We used to leave our cell#'s (or in the EV1 days, our pager#) on the dash (see the attachment I showed previously in this thread) but, back then EV drivers on road trips were fairly tough pioneers with bigger concerns than sharing their mobile number publicly.



I think this and your proposal for Tesla to provide an anonymized messaging scheme are clever technical solutions (worthy of your Si Valley location), however, overall, I think it would be a lot cheaper to just install enough charging stations at parking spaces at hotels.
ICEing has become a lot less prevalent as more EVs are on the road and using charging stations. I only expect this to continue to improve.

Not expensive if the charger already has a screen. The sensor to detect a car arriving and leaving is $1. The rest is software, duplicated at every location. I am presuming they want a smart system. Dumb chargers should be cheap but they can't be too dumb. If you want a lot of stations they need to do basic load sharing. Though hotels are special in that everybody might want to charge all night at a hotel. The cost of a lot of chargers is not cheap if they all need 30a at the same time, though you can share with the hotel that usually has that spare at night.

In time basic smarts will be present in any hotel charging bank, and reservations and ice warning are not a lot to add. If I depend on that charge, I want a near guarantee I will get it..

 

[Earl]

The sensor to detect a car arriving and leaving is $1.

I'm not going to do engineering on the internet but I'll start the process:
I'm not sure what you're going to sense for $1. Most vehicle detection systems require a magnetometer buried in the hardtop. It also needs to be outdoor and weather and temperature rated (IP 66?). Probably on the order of $100 to $500 minimum. You can buy a nice dumb EVSE for that.
I've also never saw that a screen makes much sense compared with a dumb, $500 EVSE. More to go wrong. Put in a couple dozen dumb J-1772 chargers for about $10K and folks will be happy for a long time (they should last at least a decade trouble free). A few years later, add another couple dozen and a new transformer.

If I depend on that charge, I want a near guarantee I will get it.

I'm with you there (but don't think your $1 sensor will do the trick). I figure a sign saying that "any car parked in an EV space must register its license plate at the front desk or it will be towed" should facilitate a reservation system without adding much but maybe a little notebook to record license plate numbers and room numbers.

 

[bradtem]

I'm not going to do engineering on the internet but I'll start the process:
I'm not sure what you're going to sense for $1. Most vehicle detection systems require a magnetometer buried in the hardtop. It also needs to be outdoor and weather and temperature rated (IP 66?). Probably on the order of $100 to $500 minimum. You can buy a nice dumb EVSE for that.
I've also never saw that a screen makes much sense compared with a dumb, $500 EVSE. More to go wrong. Put in a couple dozen dumb J-1772 chargers for about $10K and folks will be happy for a long time (they should last at least a decade trouble free). A few years later, add another couple dozen and a new transformer.

I'm with you there (but don't think your $1 sensor will do the trick). I figure a sign saying that "any car parked in an EV space must register its license plate at the front desk or it will be towed" should facilitate a reservation system without adding much but maybe a little notebook to record license plate numbers and room numbers.

The sensor is the radar used in cheap motion sensors. Or a Bluetooth radio. There are other cheap options.

The problem is they aren't actually going to tow. How often have your heard of a car towed from an ev spot?

 

[Earl]

The sensor is the radar used in cheap motion sensors. Or a Bluetooth radio. There are other cheap options.

The problem is they aren't actually going to tow. How often have your heard of a car towed from an ev spot?

I've done enough engineering here but 1st principles suggest that you get what you pay for.
As far as towing: I've never heard of a towing but its been a long time since I saw an ICEd spot that was authorized for towing. I even find that most Tesla Supercharger stations that are ok for 1 hour parking are usually left alone by the ICE community.
The public charging station problems today are:
1) often broken (too much focus on cheap solutions)
2) usually in use. (I actually consider this a good problem to have)

 

[RTPEV]

The sensor is the radar used in cheap motion sensors. Or a Bluetooth radio. There are other cheap options.

The problem is they aren't actually going to tow. How often have your heard of a car towed from an ev spot?

You don't actually have to tow if the threat of towing (or other severe penalty) is real enough to work as a deterrent.

I may not have seen a non-handicapped vehicle being towed from a handicapped spot, but that's mainly because nobody parks there because they know the threat is real.

 

[cleverscreenam]

Over the past two summers I have visited family in western New York (southern tier) where there were no fastchargers en route and very few L2 chargers. To give you a sense, the distance from the last supercharger en route to the next one was 343 miles (there is a new one that opened up since last summer, but that only cuts it down to 309 miles).

I live in that area and have used all the superchargers so I'm curious where did you go that was 343 miles between superchargers?? The farthest apart are the I-86 superchargers at the bottom of this map, and they're only 80 miles Erie to Salamanca, and 113 miles Salamanca to Erwin, I've driven them many times in my old Model S.

 

[RTPEV]

I live in that area and have used all the superchargers so I'm curious where did you go that was 343 miles between superchargers?? The farthest apart are the I-86 superchargers at the bottom of this map, and they're only 80 miles Erie to Salamanca, and 113 miles Salamanca to Erwin, I've driven them many times in my old Model S.

The issue is that the distances you are quoting are along highways, whereas my route was mostly non-highway (not that many north-south highways in that vicinity).

Here is my a picture of my route (roughly):

Starting Supercharger: Waterloo, NY; ending Supercharger: Breezwood, PA

A few comments:

As I mentioned, the Salamanca Supercharger was a possible alternative, albeit with an off-course deviation, but certainly not preferable given that the travel day that day was from Olean, NY to Durham, NC and we needed to be home in time for my son to continue home to Charlotte, so adding 30+ minutes to the trip would not have been great.

Second, the Supercharger in Claysburg, PA was not yet open when we went through last summer.

Now, looking at the map, I see that Altoona would have been a suitable option. We did not stop there last summer because I was able to get a full overnight charge in Olean, so I guess I didn't even consider that station. With that Supercharger, the distance goes down to 292 miles.

 

[cleverscreenam]

I see, so you had a destination in Olean, where as I just take the Williamsport route when I travel south to visit family. I think it would be great if they added a supercharger somewhere around Wyoming county, maybe Letchworth State Park? That would be near the middle of your route.