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Signature Owners: Rated Miles after charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by apacheguy, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Just curious as to what other signature owners are seeing for rated miles after max and standard charges. I seldomly do range charges, but since I'm starting a road trip I did one this morning. Here is what I see immediately after the charge:

    standard: 228 miles (90%, fw 4.5)
    max range: 260 miles

    Not too concerned about 228, but 260 seems a bit low for a range charge (used to be 273, I think). I have about 13,500 miles.
     
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    265 is the official 'rated' range but that can vary depending upon how exactly the number is arrived at which we don't know:(

    Sme have suggested charging at lower amperage allows the battery pack to do a better job balancing the pack and end up with a few extra miles.
    I am actually completing a range charge on my 85 which is close to your mileage (13,850). I'll report back in about an hour.
    Charging at 24 amps.
     
  3. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    The rated range is dependent upon your historic driving conditions. I doubt any Model S drivers are yet seeing any problems with battery degradation.

    More details on my blog: Personal Rated Range | Tesla Owner
     
  4. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Rated range is based off of the EPA 5 cycle test I thought so not dependent on your historical driving record.
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I may never have that data for you. :)
    Usually 232 (post 4.5), though I saw 236 last week once.
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I have clear evidence that Rated Range is NOT based on your driving history. During winter I use a LOT more power than I do during the summer. Rated Range did NOT change.

    There's a lot of misinformation floating around among Tesla employees. If you want range information based on (recent) driving history, use the Energy App and set the Projected mode to Average.
     
  7. jed-99aggie

    jed-99aggie Member

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    I have an early production 85 (non-sig), with 9,500 miles on it and SW 4.5. I did my first max change to completion on Monday of this week. (I have done a few other charges in the months of ownership where I continued charging past the normal range, but always stopped and immediately drove the car before max charging had completed.)

    Literally watched it finish the charge cycle and the RATED miles on the display at completion was 262.
     
  8. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    Doug I don't know the particulars but I have asked 3 different Tesla Service employees this question in Menlo Park. And the undisputed answer was yes, rated range is dependent upon your driving history. They have had a number of nervous customers ask them about this. The algorithm is reportedly a bit too complex.

    I'd personally like to see a simple "you have xx kWh" left in your battery alongside rated range.


     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    (1) Agree with Doug here. If it's based on driving history, then I should be seeing a vastly different number than people like Jerry33.
    (2) Totally agree that a kWh read-out would be ideal.
     
  10. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    In order to settle this unknown question (maybe), I put together a survey monkey. I'll post the resulting data if I get enough feedback. A simple three question survey on survey monkey. Looking for data after a standard charge (highest value pre-range charge), and then your longest collecting kwH and corresponding distance.

    Rated Range and Average Energy Tesla Model S Survey
     
  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Well, I didn't quite finish the range charge. It was reporting two minutes left for quite some time. Amps had dropped down to about 9 amps so I know it was close.
    Rated range was listed as 262.
    From what I have seen, driving history has some affect on rated range, but it is very minor. It MAY actually have no affect, but there is something else that causes a small variation in day to day numbers.
     
  12. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

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    I finish 90% with 230-232. Haven't let a range mode finish in a while so I don't know -- but I know it's less than the 272 I used to see. I attribute most of that to firmware changes (especially since we were pre-4.0 when they shipped).

    Regarding what rated range means -- I can tell you that the *development team* at Tesla has told me that it's not simply based on kWh -- it's a complex algorithm. Whether that includes information regarding your driving history or not wasn't shared with me, but it's clearly not the same as projected.
     
  13. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    On a range charge, my car will charge to 268 or 269 miles, then after the HPWC clicks off, the car will settle at 265 about 10 seconds after mains power is removed by the contactor. This is less than the 270 it used to stop at under 4.4, but because the two different software revisions use different methods, you can't compare those.
     
  14. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    Still running 4.4 firmware, my most recent standard charge was 240 miles. This is with a bit over 10000 miles on the car.

    I think the variation depends largely on the amount of time since charging completed; I use the timed charging and last looked only a couple hours after charging should've been done. Therefore I see nearly full.

    However I recall the occasional weekend where I don't get in the car until afternoon and the charge shows 23_ ... less miles because of the vampire load.
     
  15. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    By "driving history" I think they mean it recalibrates the capacity estimate after long drives, similar to the Roadster.
     
  16. kendallpb

    kendallpb Model S: P 8061

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    Either they misunderstand the Qs, or they are very confused people. The energy app is the one that is based on (very recent--instant, 5 mile, 15 mile, or 30 mile) driving history. Not the (EPA) rated miles, which is based on, as someone else said, the EPA cycle. That's where the 265 # comes from; the EPA doesn't know how we drive. The (EPA) rated miles is simply a translation of the SOC into miles--probably not an exact science, from what I've read in other threads here.

    Ideal's also not based on driving history. I'm pretty sure if I flip between rated and ideal miles, they will line up in a smooth line as my charge goes down.

    BTW your Survey Monkey doesn't ask what software version people have. The "standard/max charge" in 4.4 changed and in 4.5, the highest non-range charge is a bit lower than the old "standard charge"...so you may get answers that throw off your results.
     
  17. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Interesting to hear about the "driving history" aspect. My understanding has always been that of dsm and kendall, in which rated miles are computed purely based on the EPA estimates.
     
  18. kendallpb

    kendallpb Model S: P 8061

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    Interesting, but still, I don't think it's driving history the way most folks mean that phrase. This is asked or commented on very often at Tesla's own forums; they really should clarify it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not that this still doesn't mean it's simple. An unbalanced pack may lead to a different number depending on how they're reading the info, methinks...?
     
  19. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    I added this to the survey. Thanks
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Ask them if Ideal Range takes into account your driving habits. If they say "no" then they are clearly confused. (My delivery specialist said exactly this.)

    Ideal and Rated are a fixed ratio.
     

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