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Signature Pricing versus Mercedes Benz E series and BMW 5 Series

Discussion in 'Model S' started by DaveVa, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. DaveVa

    DaveVa Sig Perf #236 VIN #484

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    I've now had time to let the announced Model S Signature pricing sink in a bit. While I am a huge supporter of Tesla and what it is trying to accomplish with the Model-S, I am a bit disapointed that it is not more cost competative with the very cars that they have asked to be compared.

    I know I am not counting the long term fuel and maintenance savings in this equation - just the amount of money that would be needed for the actual purchase. Effectively, Tesla is putting a 20K premium on the car over its ICE competition (and that is after the tax rebate!). You can buy a cheaper Model S, just like you could by a cheaper BMW 5 series and a cheaper MB E-series, but I wanted to compare top of the line (but not M or AMG sport editions which would compete with the Signature Sport) with similar luxury packages. The gap becomes even greater if you facture in the the ability to negotiatiate a significant discount on list from either BMW or MB.

    Just curious as to other people's thoughts....

    TESLA
    Model S Signature $87,900
    Pano Roof $1,500
    Total $89,400

    BMW
    My 550i Sedan
    4.4 liter, V8 with TwinPower Turbo technology
    Rear-wheel drive
    Base MSRP $61,700
    Tasman Green Metallic $0
    Black Dakota Leather $0
    Light wood trim $0
    Convenience Package $1,700
    Luxury Seating Package $2,400
    Premium Sound Package $950
    Heated front seats $500
    Destination & Handling: $875
    Total MSRP as Built $68,125

    Mercedes Benz
    The 2012 E550 4MATIC Sedan
    MSRP* $59,790
    COLOR
    Exterior: Black $0
    Interior: Black Leather $0
    Trim: Burl Walnut Wood Trim $0

    PACKAGES
    Premium 1 Package Included with package
    Premium 2 Package $6,900

    OPTIONS
    Panorama sunroof $1,090
    Split-folding rear seats $440

    BASE MSRP $59,790

    TRANSPORTATION CHARGE $875

    GAS GUZZLER TAX $0
    TOTAL PRICE $69,095
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Dude, it's an electric car. It's gonna be more expensive.
     
  3. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    #3 Mycroft, Dec 28, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
    Plus, you should be comparing it to the non-Sig model.

    Base 85kWh = $69,900
    Metallic Paint = $750
    Pano Roof = $1,500
    Leather = $1,500
    Tech Pkg = $3,500
    Audio = $950
    Total = $78,100

    Now subtract the value of massive storage, unmatched 17" tech package, and the ability to bump up to a very impressive performance package for only $10k more! How much would it cost to bump the Beemer up the 'M' or the Merc up to AMG??

    I think the EV price penalty is rather small in this comparison.
     
  4. Bearman

    Bearman Member

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    I think you should wait and see what comes standard and go see it before you decide, you could drop down to a non sig if it would fit you better. The alcantara leather would add another $1000 to the bmw also the sig has got active air suspension standard and if you get any suspension upgrades to the bmw it could add another 2500-3800 depending on package also active steering would add another 1750 and so on. So just wait and see or drop down to a non sig, I think its too early to make an informed decision at this time.
     
  5. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Rather than thinking of there being an "EV tax", it's better to think of a hidden "ICE tax" in the form of higher operating and maintenance costs. I figure about $2500/year, which has a NPV of about $15,000, for my driving. Depending on your driving habits, that figure could be too high or too low. Tack on that $15,000 to either the BMW or MB, and you quickly pass the $78,100 that Mycroft computes.
     
  6. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    It's a small price to pay for saving the planet.....
     
  7. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #7 ckessel, Dec 28, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
    While I understand the sentiment, you have to realize this means almost nothing to the US population at large and will have a correspondingly zero impact on Tesla's ability to ramp up sales. If EV's can't be competitive on tangible costs alone, they won't sell beyond a very tiny niche. Taking fuel and maintenance into consideration, I think EVs are pretty close, but appealing to "saving the planet" is going to get you eye rolls at best and actively turn people off at worst.

    The biggest problem is sticker shock. History as shown time and time again people will buy cheap crap repeatedly rather than expensive quality once, even if over the long term the cheap crap costs more.
     
  8. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    While my remark was somewhat tongue in cheek, IMHO in many ways it's a valid point. Groundbreaking is always going to be more expensive; low cost will only come through volume and it will be many years before EV volumes come anywhere near ICE volume. Until we as consumers start investing in the future, through our purchase decisions, the EV market will never take off.

    The price comparison in the OP is one of apples and oranges.
     
  9. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    There is still an EV premium, and admittedly these are not mass consumer vehicles, but the premium is the lowest it's ever been.

    I made the point elsewhere that a $100,000 Performance Model S is pretty damned close in both price and performance to a Porsche Panamera 4S. The 4S is a bit slower at 4.8secs and a bit more expensive, but they're darn close!
     
  10. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    Right -- this whole thing is an apples to oranges comparison because of the substantially lower operating costs of an ICE. And unlike, say, a Toyota Camry to compare to the base price Model S, the repairs/maintenance on a high end Mercedes AMG or BMW M-class are much more expensive, plus you have to use premium (93 octane) gas. A $20k-$30k price difference up front probably makes them about equivalent over a 4-5 year period of ownership.
     
  11. Zextraterrestrial

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    Storage & more doesn't compare

    much more space than either

    550i 14 cf
    e550 13.3 cf

    model S 36.8 cf (with seats still upright!)

    and much lower COG

    + you can drive it indoors

    current BMW & MB vs Tesla is

    apples to tomatoes ...they are both still fruit
     
  12. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    #12 Larry Chanin, Dec 28, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
    Hi,

    Unfortunately for a large segment of the population this is currently true. However, most folks are also intellectually lazy and like to delude themselves into thinking that U.S. gas prices will remain at their relatively low, subsidized levels, indefinately. Sooner or later the reality of this finite resource will again raise it ugly head. Likewise, the costs of environmental and medical externalities are never factored into these comparisons even though we are nevertheless paying for them hidden in our and our loved one's medical bills. (By the way, as I write this the news informs me of Iran's threats to close the Straits of Hormuz.)

    I'm with Nigel on this. The time is finally right to pay up front for the long-term efficiencies of electric vehicles and by doing so we get a ground breaking and compelling car that may actually turn out to be the catayst needed to "save the planet". :smile:

    Larry
     
  13. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Agreed. They don't even seem to realize that it costs more. This scenario has probably happened to me well over 100 times by now:

    Potential buyer: Sigh. I'd love one, but I just can't afford it at that price.
    Me: Would you pay cash if you bought one?
    PB: No, I'll lease/get a loan.
    Me: Well, don't forget to subtract the fuel savings from your monthly costs. That makes the $350/month Leaf equivalent to a gas car costing $225 per month.
    PB: Oh! I hadn't thought of that!

    So...point it out to everybody you talk to!
     
  14. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Are insurance companies charging a premium, discount, or neither to insure the Leaf?
     
  15. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I've ridden in both. You simply can't compare stomping on the gas pedal and getting the rev-up-shift-rev-up strain of the Porsche to speed against the eerily smooth "like you dropped from a trapdoor"nonstop acceleration of the Model S.

    Get in and drive all your comparison cars before making a buying decision. EVs are way better. Cars are about emotion most of all, and Electrics are just more fun.
     
  16. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Yes, other people seem to make the same mistake, Signature is only the first 1000 cars produced (for the US), after that you can't buy the Signature version anymore.
     
  17. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    Neither - just going by MSRP.
     
  18. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    You have neatly demonstrated the problem with Signature (over)pricing there. :)
     
  19. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    By saying he shouldn't be comparing pricing with the limited, special-edition car? Hey, if you really have a bone to pick with the signature pricing, simply don't get a signature edition Model S. There's no need to constantly harp on about it (unless you're hoping it will somehow change Tesla's mind. If so, please harp to them).
     
  20. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    Neroden,

    I do not understand your beef with the Signature pricing at all. This is supposed to be a limited edition car that will command extra in the future as there are very few of them. Why in the world would they sell it cheaper ? I understand it is not what you want but really can you give me a good reason other than a "because I said so " attitude ?
     

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