I'm not sure how else one would do it. I'm not going to charge into them "demanding an answer." Never done that before and never will. Instead, I run things up the chain of command by having a simple line item on my repair order to address the issue where I will also ask for a concise explanation.
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I'm not sure how else one would do it. I'm not going to charge into them "demanding an answer." Never done that before and never will. Instead, I run things up the chain of command by having a simple line item on my repair order to address the issue where I will also ask for a concise explanation.
I talk up Tesla at car shows, at work, at meetings, in parking lots, and basically everywhere else too. My car and yours are great. That doesn't mean I have to like every thing the company does and defend them in every matter. I used the label because some people do defend them alot when it really doesn't make sense to do so. Calling a few of us out and saying "it wasn't an advertised feature" is just wrong. It's very insulting. This thread proves that.
I got interested and put a reservation and bought stock in 2010. I saw the quick charge and battery swaps as great options. I upgraded to a Sig because I thought the bonuses and promises would be fulfilled and fulfilled early. I got my Sig after many missed windows and after regular production cars went out. Many announcements have happened since that simply say the entire fleet but what they mean is the entire newer fleet.
Love the car. Stop making promises that can't be fulfilled and start speaking clearly about the ones you can. I don't want to hear legalese from Elon but the company should have a good looking and presentable way to share specifics with each major announcement. Communication is a major weakness, and it will eventually bite them as wider markets come about. I want this EV thing to last. There is little room for error.
Krugerrand
Meow
Nobody called anybody out. You're being dramatic.
No promise has been broken. The car CAN battery swap, it just can't be done at Harris Ranch swap station. No where is there any advertising that says there will be a rollout of battery swap stations across the country, blah, blah, blah when people had to reserve Sigs. But hey, if someone wants to get anal retentive, then they should give their Sig car back so that Tesla can make it 0-60 if 5.6 seconds like the advertisement.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That same article said the swaps were to be done at the dealership and it said nothing about there needing to be an automated system, only just that it can be swappable. I remember mention of the battery being swappable, but no promise at all of Tesla *ever* building the stations.
Here's an in depth article from 2011 with JB discussing it and he makes it clear it was just added in just in case swapping ever takes off, but they have no time table of it happening (if ever).
https://gigaom.com/2011/03/18/teslas-model-s-battery-is-swappable-just-in-case/
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Promises/commitments to expand a swap station network is an entirely separate point than what I'm discussing here. Here we have infrastructure that's been built to deliver a feature that was advertised when I bought the product that I'm now being told I cannot take advantage of. IMHO, it doesn't matter if Tesla committed/did not commit to building x number of stations. The fact is they built one and the rest is beside the point.
Your argument assumes that whatever technical issue preventing Harris Ranch from swapping OP's battery is a minor thing that's easy to overcome. No such information has been provided. It's just as likely that the A packs aren't able to handle some other part of the fast swap process just like they cannot handle 120 kW Supercharging. Like I said, simple being able to be swapped isn't enough, it's rapid swapping at a roadside center.
The 0-60 thing isn't helpful as it's not analogous; that's more like OP being upset because Tesla provided 90 second swaps for his car's battery instead of 5 minutes.
I applaud OP for following up politely, but firmly, with Tesla.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The pack is still swappable. Just perhaps not at the stations right now. For the 2012 Model S to qualify for 7 CARB credits (see link to below that shows Tesla did qualify for 7 credits), Tesla was required to demonstrate to CARB that the car is able to refill "285 miles of UDDS range in 15 minutes or less". That means the pack as it is even in the early Model S must have been swappable in under 15 minutes.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/16221-ZEV-credits/page3?p=470758&viewfull=1#post470758
Tesla never promised back then that the pack be swappable at a station or even that they will ever build even one station. I remember people assuming it would be done at a service center.
NigelM
Recovering Member
If they close that one station this whole discussion is beside the point. If the lack of infrastructure is irrelevant then so is your argument isn't it?
Krugerrand
Meow
I assume no such thing.
According to the ad you want to hang your hat on, yes it is enough.
Sorry, but what in the world are you even arguing here? The station exists. He felt he was promised the functionality should the station exist. It does exist, and he can't. That's the issue, not all these other convoluted straw men arguments. How about we address that before all these silly hypotheticals that just detract from the point.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Some constructive comments would be better than dismissing discussion as silly when you missed the point.
1) If the OP has a valid point then it's valid for all cars in the supposed VIN range, regardless of geographic location, yes? However, the perceived undelivered feature is irrelevant to everybody out reach of that one station. Therefore not surprising that the OP doesn't seem to be winning much empathy/sympathy/support.
2) Elon spoke of underwhelming demand for battery swapping, so it's reasonable to conclude that the station might get closed. What happens to the undelivered feature claim after that?
Infrastructure ie either relevant or it's not. The OP suggested himself up thread that the claim hinges on availability of stations and that he felt it wasn't a given:
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You keep saying OP's car is capable of fast battery swapping when you have absolutely no evidence to support such a claim. In fact, the only objective evidence we have is Tesla's claim to OP that his car was NOT compatible with the only swapping station. The only way to support a claim that his car could be used at some, hypothetical, future swapping station is the assumption that whatever it is that makes his battery incompatible with Harris Ranch is a fixable issue.
As for my claims as to what Tesla promised in 2011 when OP placed his order. I've cited very public bet Elon made, and claims to have won, with an automotive journalist that Tesla would deliver cars, in 2012that were, among other things, capable of mid route fast swapping like the model formerly employed by Better Place.
I hope that OP can get some resolution from Tesla.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's actually wrong. While Dan Neil may have started the bet that way (although if you read it closely it seems to be paraphrasing by GCR of Dan Neil recalling an email exchange with Elon that he since deleted; it was not a direct quote), by the end of the bet this was what happened:
"As for the third, Neil refers to that condition in his Wall Street Journal article as a battery pack that "would be easily removed and replaced," albeit not necessary at a network of swapping stations."
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...s-his-2012-tesla-model-s-bet-dan-neil-pays-up
mknox
Well-Known Member
I think 'anal retentive' is supposed to have a hyphen.
LOL. I just spilled my popcorn!
Well they are doing a trial of the single station to see how it works and if it is well received. If it ends up not working with a few thousand cars and isn't worth the effort they'll probably fold that single station.
Swap stations were never advertised. The fact the battery could be easily swapped out (doesn't say where) was.
The P85 had not been fully dreamed hence the 5.6 speed. When I reserved, the estimated price was $50K. They hadn't even hinted yet that the car would be over $100K so using your argument, they also owe me over $50K. Unreasonable people would feel that way. Some reasonable people are just asking for straight forward talk about the cars and their features. Tesla did advertise to the OP a 5 minute battery swap and later made a fast swapping station that will not change the OP's battery. I don't think anyone at Tesla can remove a battery and put a new one in in 5 minutes even if they put the whole service center crew on it. Lots of bolts, the weight, the connections, and safety protocols would prohibit this. Quit saying CAN if it can't. No other swap stations are planned so it's not likely going to happen and they clearly don't plan to make "all cars*" compatible.
deonb
Active Member
Could this just simply be a matter of the car is swappable, but the swap station simply doesn't have any 'A' batteries for it to swap with?
It's possible that the 'A' batteries require different contacts that the 'B' batteries etc. so you can't just mechanically swap the one for the other without a service call.
It's possible that the 'A' batteries require different contacts that the 'B' batteries etc. so you can't just mechanically swap the one for the other without a service call.
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