Since we are posting crash stories…Plaid S Idiot

[techlogik]

Two dead including a homeowner after vehicle plows through Palm Harbor home - IONTB

Troopers from the Florida Highway Patrol (FHP) are investigating a crash that killed two people. The crash occurred at approximately 10:21 p.m. on Friday, September 3, 2021 in Palm Harbor, Florida. The crash involved a 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid which crashed into the home located at 1498 Caird...

iontb.com

 

[diplomat33]

Two dead including a homeowner after vehicle plows through Palm Harbor home - IONTB

Troopers from the Florida Highway Patrol (FHP) are investigating a crash that killed two people. The crash occurred at approximately 10:21 p.m. on Friday, September 3, 2021 in Palm Harbor, Florida. The crash involved a 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid which crashed into the home located at 1498 Caird...

iontb.com

The report says that AP was not engaged at the time of the crash. So AP was not at fault. Sounds like classic human error. And perhaps the driver was not used to the Plaid's acceleration and lost control?

In fact, I would argue that perhaps Tesla's insane performance are more of a safety issue than AP. It seems a lot of the accidents have happened, not because of AP, but because the driver could not handle the car's acceleration. Really, the performance of the Plaid belongs on a closed track, not on public roads IMO.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

The report says that AP was not engaged at the time of the crash. So AP was not at fault. Sounds like classic human error. And perhaps the driver was not used to the Plaid's acceleration and lost control?

In fact, I would argue that perhaps Tesla's insane performance are more of a safety issue than AP. It seems a lot of the accidents have happened, not because of AP, but because the driver could not handle the car's acceleration. Really, the performance of the Plaid belongs on a closed track, not on public roads IMO.

Yeah, the linked article reads like the driver was not the owner:

According to FHP, the seriously injured driver had three passengers in the vehicle. One of the passengers, a 43 year-old Odessa man died after being transported to an area hospital from injuries suffered during the crash. Friends have identified him at Travis Grant Meisman, the owner of the vehicle.

Which supports the notion the driver was someone not prepared for getting into dangerous speeds so quickly, then combine the overwhelming speed with the totally different driving method (maybe forgetting there's an actual brake pedal), I could see someone going into total panic mode.

 

[Cubanlink]

Me thinks .GOV needs to step in and start limiting acceleration and power on vehicles. Does anyone need >400hp in a car (not truck)? We're at insane levels of top speed and acceleration now. Before mid 5s was considered fast, now we don't talk about fast until we are in the 3 second range. Bonkers and dangerous for the road. I'm no fan of big brother but there has to be a plateau somewhere.

 

[Terminator857]

After FSD is available (10 years?), people will start requiring FSD in all cars. Will get increasingly harder to get a driver's license. If you are cited you automatically lose your driver's license for 6 months. If you are involved in a serious incident like this, you lose your driver's license for life.

 

[snellenr]

Took a look at the road that was the runway for this flight in StreetView — straight as an arrow, but the worst example of patched & scabby pavement I’ve seen in years. Nobody in their right mind would have opened up in a VW Bug on that pavement - but “Hold my beer” and acceleration have their own logic, unfortunately.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Took a look at the road that was the runway for this flight in StreetView — straight as an arrow, but the worst example of patched & scabby pavement I’ve seen in years. Nobody in their right mind would have opened up in a VW Bug on that pavement - but “Hold my beer” and acceleration have their own logic, unfortunately.

Yeah, I did that too. It's almost kind of like a service/access road, behind houses/fences, so I sort of get what they were thinking - but like you said, it's mostly patched pavement and it's still in a residential area with a sidewalk.

I don't see any street lights either, looks like a case of not enough road, poor visibility, and bottom line: just a terrible decision.

For those wondering, this is the road, and the cross road at the end (with the stop sign is where they didn't stop:

 

[Daniel in SD]

Plaid should really come with a parachute.

 

[Terminator857]

Plaid should really come with a parachute.

Should auto emergency braking have been involved in this? Maybe it was, and was overridden?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Should auto emergency braking have been involved in this? Maybe it was, and was overridden?

Not really intended for this. But the accelerator presumably overrides that anyway.

Doesn’t even look like there was an obvious intent to stop. See no obvious skid marks of any form, though that does not mean the car was not slowing. The data from the car will be interesting I suppose.

What a disaster.

 

[roblab]

The report says that AP was not engaged at the time of the crash. So AP was not at fault. Sounds like classic human error. And perhaps the driver was not used to the Plaid's acceleration and lost control?

In fact, I would argue that perhaps Tesla's insane performance are more of a safety issue than AP. It seems a lot of the accidents have happened, not because of AP, but because the driver could not handle the car's acceleration. Really, the performance of the Plaid belongs on a closed track, not on public roads IMO.

Certainly one should not be racing cars where they can hurt people, and a track would be best. However, being a crazy Tesla owner, I have been known to demonstrate my car's acceleration on a stretch of straight unoccupied country road. I have driven fast, at times, many times in my life and I'm aware of how a little abrupt movement of the steering at speed can cause devastating loss of control. BUT I still do it, because I AM in control and never make any rapid steering movements at speed. It can be done safely.

I suspect accidents happen to people who get out of their experience zone. I allow people to drive my car, but I am in front with them and insist that they accelerate and steer gently, at least until they get some idea of the amazing acceleration and power, and I own the Long Range, not a Performance. I've never come close to an accident while showing off my car.

 

[Daniel in SD]

It doesn't sound like they lost control. They probably just didn't have experience with a car that can accelerate to 150mph in 9 seconds. You need to leave almost as much distance to brake as it took to accelerate with that kind of power.

 

[SMAlset]

Certainly one should not be racing cars where they can hurt people, and a track would be best. However, being a crazy Tesla owner, I have been known to demonstrate my car's acceleration on a stretch of straight unoccupied country road. I have driven fast, at times, many times in my life and I'm aware of how a little abrupt movement of the steering at speed can cause devastating loss of control. BUT I still do it, because I AM in control and never make any rapid steering movements at speed. It can be done safely.

I suspect accidents happen to people who get out of their experience zone. I allow people to drive my car, but I am in front with them and insist that they accelerate and steer gently, at least until they get some idea of the amazing acceleration and power, and I own the Long Range, not a Performance. I've never come close to an accident while showing off my car.

I can vouch for that being one of the people you let me test drive your car. We had a Model S that I drove before I test drove the Model 3 so the acceleration wasn’t a surprise but it was when my husband first got his car.

I do think a number of new drivers to EVs and especially those cars capable of 2-3-4 second 0-60 acceleration will be shocked the first time at how fast it feels. I see new drivers not use to performance cars and launching the car from a stop, not being comfortable yet with the car controls and one pedal braking/accelerating tripping up newbies early on. I expect to see more stories in the news and not just with Teslas.

@Daniel in SD makes a good point on not judging speed distance stopping.

Sorry to see that lady lost her life over this. Owner of the car too. I don’t know that anyone knows yet from that article that the driver was launching down the road. Couldn’t he have been stopping or stopped at the stop sign and simply used the wrong pedal and the acceleration confused him more? Seen many stories of newbie Tesla owners going to park and instead shooting forward into a garage or over a parking curb and into a store front.

 

[qdeathstar]

Me thinks .GOV needs to step in and start limiting acceleration and power on vehicles. Does anyone need >400hp in a car (not truck)? We're at insane levels of top speed and acceleration now. Before mid 5s was considered fast, now we don't talk about fast until we are in the 3 second range. Bonkers and dangerous for the road. I'm no fan of big brother but there has to be a plateau somewhere.

There are all sorts of reasons to take rights away from people. No one needs a car at all. No one needs a gun. No one needs free speech.

 

[smogne41]

Tragic there was loss of life, especially someone who was not involved in any way. Plenty of idiots in the world, especially when fast cars are involved. However, I do wonder if the yoke had anything to do with this. Not saying it did, but I would also not be surprised in any way if it was a contributing factor.

 

[Dan D.]

Tragic there was loss of life, especially someone who was not involved in any way. Plenty of idiots in the world, especially when fast cars are involved. However, I do wonder if the yoke had anything to do with this. Not saying it did, but I would also not be surprised in any way if it was a contributing factor.

It's not clear who was the driver, but Travis Grant Meisman was one occupant who lost his life in the crash. One search result for the name comes up with a DUI case from 2003 with high rate of speed, airborne vehicle and license suspension in a new H2 Hummer only 14 miles from this crash location. May not be the same individual and that infraction may not be relevant to this crash.

Anyway, if they launched down Manning Rd, which has a length of 1800 ft, based on typical drag strip times they could have been around 140mph at ~900 ft, then immediately braking they might have stopped at the stop sign. Since they were reported to have crashed at high speed, likely they didn't brake soon enough, or lost control.

If they didn't start braking until reaching 155mph at ~1100 ft, they'd never have stopped. Plus if the road was still in the condition we see on Streetview it would have been difficult to control at that speed. Has there been much testing on braking performance on rough roads from 150mph? They might have assumed braking performance was equal to traction control acceleration and they misjudged how long it would take to stop.

 

[ghawkjr]

I live nearby and went by the site tonight. The road has been repaved since the Google Streets picture posted earlier. One of the attachments shows the street looking back from the wreck site. It's a different color for about the last 150 feet before the crash, but the road is smooth all the way. at the south end of the street, you can see the intersection and wall at the north (accident) end. Why you would accelerate toward a wall is beyond me.
Another pic shows where the Plaid hit the small embankment before flying into the house. Here's a link to a local news outlet's story: 2 killed after Tesla crashes into Palm Harbor home

The pictures and video with the story indicate the car took out a section of the fence, as a tarp is stretched across the area. By tonight, they must have propped the fence back up in place.

There was another local story last week where a Tesla sideswiped a police car stopped on the side of the road. In that story, ". . . it was determined that auto pilot was in use." The story on this recent accident indicates auto pilot was NOT in use. Other than asking the driver, can the police really tell whether auto pilot or TACC was in use? How?

 

[Brando]

IDEA: require Plaid buyers take an intro class at Drag Strip - Helmut, fire protection clothes (Strip owners get to pitch to new possible Plaid owner about drag racing. Do Drag Strips do this Introductions for Hot Rod cars ?

Business idea for Drag Strip owners to offer (includes Helmut, protective gear rental 1st runs single (no competition) to help with safety. Anyway, I think you get the idea. passengers, if allowed would also need protective gear rental.

 

[drtimhill]

Me thinks .GOV needs to step in and start limiting acceleration and power on vehicles. Does anyone need >400hp in a car (not truck)? We're at insane levels of top speed and acceleration now. Before mid 5s was considered fast, now we don't talk about fast until we are in the 3 second range. Bonkers and dangerous for the road. I'm no fan of big brother but there has to be a plateau somewhere.

Essentially its limited by economics .. the Plaid, like other exotics, is expensive enough to be out of the reach of most people, particularly the teenager group who are likely to be the ones causing such accidents. Sure, these type of accidents get the headlines, but (tragically) people are killed by cars every day .. most of them boring old SUVs (which are more dangerous since they are heavy and far less maneuverable than sedans). By your logic you should ban SUVs too. Oh, and lawn mowers, which are exceedingly dangerous (Lawn Mower Accident Statistics and Facts - 2021 Update).

 

[Daniel in SD]

Essentially its limited by economics .. the Plaid, like other exotics, is expensive enough to be out of the reach of most people, particularly the teenager group who are likely to be the ones causing such accidents. Sure, these type of accidents get the headlines, but (tragically) people are killed by cars every day .. most of them boring old SUVs (which are more dangerous since they are heavy and far less maneuverable than sedans). By your logic you should ban SUVs too. Oh, and lawn mowers, which are exceedingly dangerous (Lawn Mower Accident Statistics and Facts - 2021 Update).

On the other hand the Plaid is probably the least safe car on the road in terms of deaths per mile. Small sample size though!