Single Motor in the Snow

[HellsKitchen]

We can obviously only speculate at this point, but how does everyone think the single motor will perform in the snow and bad weather?

I ask because, as I mentioned in another thread, I ordered a single + the automation package rather than a dual without the full driving.

It would be nice to have the range and performance, but I think I would rather have the full driving and an earlier time frame. I’m really ready for a truck now, so the wait is going to be an impatient one for me.

 

[Cyber_Dav]

I’m really ready for a truck now, so the wait is going to be an impatient one for me.

The wait, the anticipation, the longing... I'm wasting sooo much time on Cyber forums!

 

[camalaio]

If they use a similar motor and traction control system as the current Model 3, poorly: Disappointing traction control - is it me?

The old induction motors used on Model S/X (and still used on the rear of the "Raven" Model X at least) seem to behave much, much better.

Besides, if snow and bad weather are factors, FSD will not be available for you during these times. Model 3 for example needs physical changes in order to prevent swirling snow and grime from collecting on the rear camera and even the side ones. I've had all three of these cameras obscured in snowy driving already.

Software changes are also necessary. I'm not willing to see how it behaves, but the current behaviour of the Model 3 would indicate that some actions of the vehicle (cancelling lane changes abruptly, phantom braking, etc.) would be extremely dangerous in winter driving conditions.

EDIT: This of course assumes the single motor results in RWD, which would be consistent for Tesla and most trucks. They could pull a Honda move and make the truck FWD instead (the Honda Ridgeline had a heavy front bias for its 4WD system). This would improve handling for most people at the cost of 0-60 times.

 

[HellsKitchen]

This of course assumes the single motor results in RWD, which would be consistent for Tesla and most trucks. They could pull a Honda move and make the truck FWD instead (the Honda Ridgeline had a heavy front bias for its 4WD system). This would improve handling for most people at the cost of 0-60 times.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is RWD

 

[jebinc]

If they use a similar motor and traction control system as the current Model 3, poorly: Disappointing traction control - is it me?

The old induction motors used on Model S/X (and still used on the rear of the "Raven" Model X at least) seem to behave much, much better.

Besides, if snow and bad weather are factors, FSD will not be available for you during these times. Model 3 for example needs physical changes in order to prevent swirling snow and grime from collecting on the rear camera and even the side ones. I've had all three of these cameras obscured in snowy driving already.

Software changes are also necessary. I'm not willing to see how it behaves, but the current behaviour of the Model 3 would indicate that some actions of the vehicle (cancelling lane changes abruptly, phantom braking, etc.) would be extremely dangerous in winter driving conditions.

EDIT: This of course assumes the single motor results in RWD, which would be consistent for Tesla and most trucks. They could pull a Honda move and make the truck FWD instead (the Honda Ridgeline had a heavy front bias for its 4WD system). This would improve handling for most people at the cost of 0-60 times.

Not sure I can agree with your “Edit” comments. FWD examples given are ones where a heavy ICE is sitting on top of the drive wheels. Not true for the Cybertruck, or any EV for that matter. An old paradigm assumption, perhaps?

 

[camalaio]

Not sure I can agree with your “Edit” comments. FWD examples given are ones where a heavy ICE is sitting on top of the drive wheels. Not true for the Cybertruck, or any EV for that matter. An old paradigm assumption, perhaps?

Yeah I get it. It's discussed in that thread and many others across various websites. Vehicles aren't usually grossly distributed one way or another though, since there are general benefits to keeping it evenly split. 60/40 is a somewhat common rough number. I think the Model 3 was 48/52. Those aren't so far off that it completely changes our understandings of four-wheeled vehicles.

It might also be prudent for Tesla to load the Cybertruck more towards a 60/40 ratio since it is expected that there will be weight occasionally loaded in the back (not to mention there just is less stuff in the back of a pickup truck to start with), so I'm not exactly off base.

 

[jebinc]

Yeah I get it. It's discussed in that thread and many others across various websites. Vehicles aren't usually grossly distributed one way or another though, since there are general benefits to keeping it evenly split. 60/40 is a somewhat common rough number. I think the Model 3 was 48/52. Those aren't so far off that it completely changes our understandings of four-wheeled vehicles.

It might also be prudent for Tesla to load the Cybertruck more towards a 60/40 ratio since it is expected that there will be weight occasionally loaded in the back (not to mention there just is less stuff in the back of a pickup truck to start with), so I'm not exactly off base.

Understood. Even if it were 50/50, the point/argument that FWD Cybertruck would be better than a RWD Cybertruck baffles me. Wouldn’t a RWD Cybertruck be equal or better to have if the Cybertruck weight distribution was 50/50?

 

[SSedan]

I am happy with my P85, like it better in modest slush vs. a loaner 85D I had.
I got my license in a place that sees 180" average snowfall and currently live in a place with a 48" and most of last 21 years I have owned RWD cars, so I might not be a good gauge of how others will feel.

 

[camalaio]

Understood. Even if it were 50/50, the point/argument that FWD Cybertruck would be better than a RWD Cybertruck baffles me. Wouldn’t a RWD Cybertruck be equal or better to have if the Cybertruck weight distribution was 50/50?

It really depends on what is meant by "better", and I did not intend for it to be a universal statement.

My statement was "This would improve handling for most people". Most people deal far better with loss of traction of the front wheels. Not only can they respond easier (just left off the throttle and understeer is minimized again), traction control systems can very effectively deal with loss of traction in the front and regain both steering (trajectory) and forward traction. For a daily driver, ease of control and predictability is nice to have.

For RWD, usually the rear end kicks out when traction is lost. This is harder for most people to correct naturally, requiring more skill and finesse. It's also unstable (easy to make it fishtail more, or cause it to whip the other way harder) compared to the classic understeer scenario of FWD.

RWD is also classically better for 0-60 times as I mentioned. You end up with some weight transfer to the back on hard acceleration, which can help put more power down and get you to 60 faster. A FWD vehicle lifts weight off the front, and has less overall traction available on hard acceleration. This is only a phenomenon of hard acceleration on grippy surfaces, or perhaps also going uphill with a heavy load. So if a goal of buying this truck is raw performance on dry pavement in a straight line, RWD is better.

Now one could ask, "What is better for a truck?". Well, what does a truck need to do? Haul stuff. FWD would have a harder time with this going uphill as mentioned, so RWD could be more suited here. However, most trucks where I live rarely see any cargo! So you end up with a RWD vehicle that has less weight on the driven axle (even compared to a sedan), and it has a higher tendency to lose traction. This is why people put sandbags or other heavy things in the back of trucks in winter. If Tesla is indeed hoping to target those who will use the truck "properly", then RWD could make more sense in some cases. But simultaneously, Tesla targets those who want to beat a stock 911 in a 0-60 drag. And odd combination for a truck, but they do both imply RWD.

IMO, what's better for a truck is true AWD of course. Gets more or less the best of both worlds when driving appropriately. But that's not what this thread is about.

I hope the truck uses the "old" induction motors for RWD if Tesla hasn't figured out how to get the newer "Model 3" motor under control in low traction environments.

 

[Electruck]

We can obviously only speculate at this point, but how does everyone think the single motor will perform in the snow and bad weather?

A wheel set for winter which is snow tires, and 3-4 sandbags in the vault, you'll be set for fun times.

 

[jebinc]

It really depends on what is meant by "better", and I did not intend for it to be a universal statement.

My statement was "This would improve handling for most people". Most people deal far better with loss of traction of the front wheels. Not only can they respond easier (just left off the throttle and understeer is minimized again), traction control systems can very effectively deal with loss of traction in the front and regain both steering (trajectory) and forward traction. For a daily driver, ease of control and predictability is nice to have.

For RWD, usually the rear end kicks out when traction is lost. This is harder for most people to correct naturally, requiring more skill and finesse. It's also unstable (easy to make it fishtail more, or cause it to whip the other way harder) compared to the classic understeer scenario of FWD.

RWD is also classically better for 0-60 times as I mentioned. You end up with some weight transfer to the back on hard acceleration, which can help put more power down and get you to 60 faster. A FWD vehicle lifts weight off the front, and has less overall traction available on hard acceleration. This is only a phenomenon of hard acceleration on grippy surfaces, or perhaps also going uphill with a heavy load. So if a goal of buying this truck is raw performance on dry pavement in a straight line, RWD is better.

Now one could ask, "What is better for a truck?". Well, what does a truck need to do? Haul stuff. FWD would have a harder time with this going uphill as mentioned, so RWD could be more suited here. However, most trucks where I live rarely see any cargo! So you end up with a RWD vehicle that has less weight on the driven axle (even compared to a sedan), and it has a higher tendency to lose traction. This is why people put sandbags or other heavy things in the back of trucks in winter. If Tesla is indeed hoping to target those who will use the truck "properly", then RWD could make more sense in some cases. But simultaneously, Tesla targets those who want to beat a stock 911 in a 0-60 drag. And odd combination for a truck, but they do both imply RWD.

IMO, what's better for a truck is true AWD of course. Gets more or less the best of both worlds when driving appropriately. But that's not what this thread is about.

I hope the truck uses the "old" induction motors for RWD if Tesla hasn't figured out how to get the newer "Model 3" motor under control in low traction environments.

Yep. I got the DM AWD version so I didn't have to have this debate with myself!

 

[Mayonayze]

A wheel set for winter which is snow tires, and 3-4 sandbags in the vault, you'll be set for fun times.

Will these trucks need e load rating?

 

[Electruck]

Will these trucks need e load rating?

Couldn't tell you friend, I only have EE rated tires for my HD shiite....

 

[Leeclanual]

I’d personally give up the FSD option before the extra motor as AWD capability...

 

[T3slaDad]

The wait, the anticipation, the longing... I'm wasting sooo much time on Cyber forums!

These are the only Cyber forums my wife approves me frequenting...

 

[jebinc]

These are the only Cyber forums my wife approves me frequenting...

You can try this dedicated one (if not already), but "foot traffic" is a bit light...

www.cybertruckownersclub.com/

 

[sparcs]

This was an opinion in another topic:

Get AWD if you want this:

You want the improved 0-60 times in dry conditions, more range or more towing.

You need to get somewhere that is at the top of the hill in icy conditions that will improve hours later when you need to go down the hill. Like where you live or work.

You want to regularly drive in deep sand. You want to do some serious off-roading. Like in conditions that would leave cosmetic damage.

You want to get stuck so bad that it will take hours to get unstuck since you were overconfident in you and the vehicles ability.

You want to be towed out of a ditch by a two wheel drive car since you drove too fast down an icy hill that was easy to go up cuz AWD. My front engine RWD has done this twice. This would have worse weight distribution than the cybertruck.

I like having two wheel drive. The two times while off-roading I got stuck an AWD could get me out without taking more than 10 minutes. Most of the time when conditions require chains or AWD I only see AWD vehicles stuck. I like being able to decelerate at twice the rate I can accelerate in low traction conditions. It makes it easy to exercise good judgement.

 

[woodguyatl]

Will these trucks need e load rating?

Quite likely in order to carry the payload they are claiming.

 

[Eclectic]

Unloaded, the rwd truck will likely be like any other rwd truck in snow...not good.

One of the few complaints I had with our original P85 was that the rear end would step out on slicker roads unless you were careful with the throttle. This problem went away, entirely, with the P85D we upgraded to.

With a truck that has the capability to haul a load, the bed will, by necessity, be the problem in snow unless you have a load in the bed. For example, a few days ago I took my F150 to my hunting cabin and had to go into 4WD hi to get through the snowy area on the trails. Even on city streets in town, without a load in the bed the back end of the truck was prone to sliding with anything more than a very gentle bit of throttle. When I put a snowmobile in the bed, though, even without 4wd the truck was totally planted in the snow.

While I'm definitely not a potential buyer of the truck, I couldn't imagine getting the rwd version unless all I was going to use it for is going to home depot in the desert.