Ski Trip from Virginia Beach To Snowshoe, WV in a model 3 (range hit)

[qdeathstar]

I am considering driven my model 3 standard range plus from virginia beach to snowshoe, wv for a ski trip. I plan to camp in my car at the greenbank observatory (apparently charging is available 24hours there). It seems like i will have plenty of charge to to this, but i’ve read about range loss due to cold weather. It will likely be in the 20s. I don’t plan on going during a snowstorm, just when the roads are in good shape.


Is the range loss due to heating, or just because it is cold? I can skip the heat from the last supercharger in Staunton, wv if that will save on range. Although, abetterrouteplanner says i can get to greebank at 10 percent soc only charging to 55 percent at staunton.

What do you think? Too risky or go for it?

 

[PACEMD]

Most of that trip is easy on I-64 until you get west of I-81 in the mountains. Cold, mountains, and speed is the enemy and not always easy to predict. I've used 250 "miles" on my 150-mile commute here in Montana, with only moderate mountain elevations, when the temperature was below whatever, 5-25 degrees f. Meaning I used 80+% where I would otherwise use 50-60%%. I get nervous when I get below 20% in the cold. Meaning if you can charge to 80-90% at the last stop why not arrive with 35-45% charge? Not sure what skip the heat from the last supercharger means or what that has to do with range. I'm from Eastern North Carolina and used to work in Hot Springs, VA so I do know those roads a bit.

 

[Big Earl]

I am considering driven my model 3 standard range plus from virginia beach to snowshoe, wv for a ski trip. I plan to camp in my car at the greenbank observatory (apparently charging is available 24hours there). It seems like i will have plenty of charge to to this, but i’ve read about range loss due to cold weather. It will likely be in the 20s. I don’t plan on going during a snowstorm, just when the roads are in good shape.


Is the range loss due to heating, or just because it is cold? I can skip the heat from the last supercharger in Staunton, wv if that will save on range. Although, abetterrouteplanner says i can get to greebank at 10 percent soc only charging to 55 percent at staunton.

What do you think? Too risky or go for it?

If ABRP suggests it will take 45% to get from Staunton to your destination, why not charge up to 80% in Staunton so you arrive with 35%, which is more than enough margin to run the heat and even make it through a surprise snow storm or detour?

 

[PACEMD]

Oh, sorry, by skip the heat you mean drive without a heated cabin? Not sure why you would drive with a cold cabin to save $5 or 5 minutes at a supercharger. But that's just me. I would turn the cabin heat off if I needed the range and had no charging options. Here in Montana, that's a very real thing. In the outbacks of western Virginia/Eastern WV, the roads are also a bit funky. In my experience highway speed takes a bigger hit on range than cabin heat. Speeds above 60-65 mph takes a big hit. Here the speed limit is 80 mph. In the cold that kills range.

 

[Armee_1]

Range loss is due to both - heat usage and the cold temp. I would try - abetterrouteplanner.com and input all your data there. I've found it to be extremely useful on long trips and has never let me down. If anything, I've had more charge then predicted - which is a good thing. I quickly ran your plan, and it looks like it will work if you charge at Glenn Allen prior to Staunton. But, check it out for yourself and leave a good buffer. Also, make sure you have the correct adapter for whatever power source you will be using at Greenbank.

 

[qdeathstar]

Oh, sorry, by skip the heat you mean drive without a heated cabin? Not sure why you would drive with a cold cabin to save $5 or 5 minutes at a supercharger. But that's just me. I would turn the cabin heat off if I needed the range and had no charging options. Here in Montana, that's a very real thing. In the outbacks of western Virginia/Eastern WV, the roads are also a bit funky. In my experience highway speed takes a bigger hit on range than cabin heat. Speeds above 60-65 mph takes a big hit. Here the speed limit is 80 mph. In the cold that kills range.

I was worried about range loss and it doesn’t seem like abetterrouteplanner takes that into affect. I heard range loss in cold weather can be up to thirty percent, which would make the trip from staunton to greenbank risky.

 

[RFernatt]

I drive through the mountains between Martinsburg, WV off I81 to Charleston, WV taking I68 and I79. In cold weather on mountainous interstates, energy usage can be very high. I would build extra buffer into every leg. There aren't many other options in rural areas and if an accident, landslide, flooding, road closure, etc. necessitates a detour, you'll need the buffer. The cold and wind in the mountains, throw in some unexpected precipitation, isn't to be taken lightly.

Also, you'll have to run minimal heat/defrost to keep the windshield/windows clear. And, stuff happens. L2 chargers are notoriously out of service, blocked, busy, etc. Cell service is non existent or spotty in that area. Turns are missed, backtracking ensues. 30+% loss in cold mountain driving is possible (high wind, cabin heat/defrost, headlights, wipers, etc.).

I don't mean to discourage you, but if you're not really familiar with the limits of the car and are driving in challenging conditions in an unfamiliar, rural area with few plan Bs available, just consider carefully if it's a good fit. You don't want a big outing to come off poorly especially if it's more than you going.

 

[PACEMD]

I was worried about range loss and it doesn’t seem like abetterrouteplanner takes that into affect. I heard range loss in cold weather can be up to thirty percent, which would make the trip from staunton to greenbank risky.

I google map 76- 80 miles from Staunton to Green Bank, I'm assuming more or less mountains depending on the road chosen. Meaning just top off to 80-90% in Staunton and you should have a good margin. I would agree with 30+ percent in the cold. Steep mountains, speed, wind, etc all have an effect. Hell, charge to 95-100% if you're worried, no harm done.

 

[Evoforce]

As long as you are driving instantly after charging, charge as close as you can to 100% if needed!

 

[BarryL]

In the colder temps I’ve driven my Model 3 (25-35 degrees) I always figure an add’l 40%-50% of battery use. Just driving normal highway speeds, maybe 5 over, and using cabin heater.

 

[MrMassTransit]

Just as an aside, I was out in Green Bank in early November and they have a great charging setup. You are expected to pay $3 at the visitor center but I can't see you having an issue if you get in after they close. They two 40A Clippercreek chargers. I have no idea what their policy is on camping overnight but I stayed a little after closing to charge and there was no issue.

In my experience, if you start the day with a somewhat warm battery (I make sure the charge the last 10-20% of my battery right before I leave), then the range loss isn't too bad if you primary use the seat heaters and not the cabin heat. The cabin heat does have a decent impact on the range. I cycle it on and off occasionally for defrost but otherwise don't use it unless it is bitterly cold (more to preserve efficiency than out of any range anxiety).

 

[PACEMD]

For the record I wasn't suggesting that cabin heat does not affect efficiency, it does. I was saying that in my experience highway speeds over 65 mph, and in my situation 80+ mph, have a greater effect than cabin heat. With the 16 kW destination charger in Snowshoe, I would want to arrive with the most reserve possible. Gives you some drive around town and hook up when you can flexibility.

 

[qdeathstar]

I drive through the mountains between Martinsburg, WV off I81 to Charleston, WV taking I68 and I79. In cold weather on mountainous interstates, energy usage can be very high. I would build extra buffer into every leg. There aren't many other options in rural areas and if an accident, landslide, flooding, road closure, etc. necessitates a detour, you'll need the buffer. The cold and wind in the mountains, throw in some unexpected precipitation, isn't to be taken lightly.

Also, you'll have to run minimal heat/defrost to keep the windshield/windows clear. And, stuff happens. L2 chargers are notoriously out of service, blocked, busy, etc. Cell service is non existent or spotty in that area. Turns are missed, backtracking ensues. 30+% loss in cold mountain driving is possible (high wind, cabin heat/defrost, headlights, wipers, etc.).

I don't mean to discourage you, but if you're not really familiar with the limits of the car and are driving in challenging conditions in an unfamiliar, rural area with few plan Bs available, just consider carefully if it's a good fit. You don't want a big outing to come off poorly especially if it's more than you going.

i’m very familiar with the roads, but like you said if the charger is out, snowshoe is about 30 additional miles away but you have to drive up 6000ft of mountain.

 

[Armee_1]

I was worried about range loss and it doesn’t seem like abetterrouteplanner takes that into affect. I heard range loss in cold weather can be up to thirty percent, which would make the trip from staunton to greenbank risky.

It does take temperature range loss into consideration - if you input the temperature. Click "show more settings" and input it. I have used this in the winter and it has been accurate for me. It's showing average 309wh/mile at 20F and 276wh/mile at 75F for this trip.

 

[bhzmark]

From staunton range isn't an issue. More important is to have proper winter tires if there is any snow on the roads or be super careful.

 

[PACEMD]

I would add that I am using the stock Michelin MXM4 all-season tires here in Montana with no problems. First winter with the P3D- but the usual snow has been easy enough. This car is exceptionally good in the snow. Would winter/snow tires handle better? No doubt. Are they essential? Not for paved roads in southeastern Montana. Upstate New York, yeah, get snow tires. You decide but I would have no worries about that trip with stock tires. Your slippery mileage may vary.

 

[Wvapoker]

I’m assuming you decided not to camp at Greenbank.

 

[qdeathstar]

I’m assuming you decided not to camp at Greenbank.

Nope, but i did do a drive by and it seems like it would work. I made it to snowshoe with about 30 miles of range left.

 

[winglian]

Nope, but i did do a drive by and it seems like it would work. I made it to snowshoe with about 30 miles of range left.

Did you charge to 100% in Staunton? We live in Annapolis and have made the trip to snowshoe in our ICE several times each year and I’m already looking into taking our Model Y there this coming winter. We try to take the northern route (48 over from Strasbourg and down 28) as it has fewer switchbacks. Coming over the pass from either Staunton or Harrisonburg usually results in my daughter getting carsick from the switchbacks and vomit ends up being involved. We looked at the ABRP details for our preferred route and the last supercharger is in Strasburg. Even leaving Strasburg at 100% puts us in Snowshoe at 36% and that’s with 20F and 600# cargo set. I’m wary of this as you may well know, cell phones don’t work any where in that area, so running out of juice on the way there is going to be a bad day. How did your actual trip compare to ABRP for winter conditions?

 

[qdeathstar]

I did charge to 100 and i got there around 17 percent left but i did use the heat. The temps were in the 30s and no weather, sr plus. I went right over the pass. My three year old nephew loved it. I feel like i used a little more than expected. You can definitely get to snowshoe. If you don’t charge while you are there you will not make it back. So you might have to end up camping out around the chargers. I got real lucky i feel like, and don’t forget that EVs are getting more popular which will result in more people wanting to use those chargers.