Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality
I just tried 2 of the songs. 1 correct, 1 failed. I've decided that I can't tell the difference.
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Slacker radio credentials
- Thread starter talkingevs
- Start date
I just tried 2 of the songs. 1 correct, 1 failed. I've decided that I can't tell the difference.
Be mindful that you have to do these tests on insanely high end equipment to tell the faintest difference. People who claim otherwise are bs'ing you. Aka you need a $500 digital headphones amplifier and even then you probably wouldn't be able to tell. If you listen on a standard laptop or headphones you're limited to the sampling of the output dac which is likely at 48khz
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Electric Joe
Member
Yeah, I got 2 out of 6 right using an awful office-style headset. I really couldn't tell any difference using that. This would be an interesting test to take using a Tesla's stereo. I wonder if Bluetooth would be a quality bottleneck though.
Still fun! Thanks for posting.
Still fun! Thanks for posting.
audio encoding technology has come a long way, even just in encoding mp3s that would still play on a Rio. Back in the early days, bitrate mattered greatly but so did encoding software used. Encoding software ( and settings) still matter, but most have improved to the point where bitrate is less important. A modern 128kbps encode is generally hard to tell from 320kbps, and might even sound better than some earlier 320kbps encodes. Plus, modern VBR, even maintaining an average bitrate, can make a huge difference. Once upon a time it was either VBR with no bitrate control or a fixed CBR. Nowadays, you can use VBR with some buffering to put the bits where they're needed most.
Having said that, the source material matters too. Looking at the NPR selection, they're almost all trivial to encode assuming a reasonable bitrate (64kbps might be obvious, especially if it's mp3 and not AAC, but 96 or 128 might be hard to tell from 256 and above). Even the few more difficult to encode pieces aren't really that heavy on the sorts of combinations that lead to noticeable aliasing when using perceptual audio encoding methods. The NPR setup is using 128kbps, 320kbps, and uncompressed WAV - with any modern software these should be basically indistinguishable for nearly all sources. Mobile streaming services are far more likely to use 64kbps and/or 96bkps as their lower tier, though it helps that some of them use AAC instead of MP3. If the NPR test wanted to really test your ability to discern bitrates, they should have had a lower bitrate in the mix.
Comparing for example, some more difficult to encode (due to the artificial nature of sounds used) source, like some (but by no means all) Daft Punk songs as an example, using Amazon Prime music, the lowest setting is audibly garbage, the middle and high settings are closer but in some sections I can tell the difference.
However, listening environment (which includes the listener themselves) and playback device make a bigger difference once you get past the lowest tier of audio encoding. I used to listen to streaming audio using the analog aux input on my Mazda 3, but once I finally got a decent bluetooth adapter (which also is connected via aux in, but is using BT from the phone instead of the phone's headphone output), the difference was quite noticeable, especially in the low end. The phone's headphone output just wasn't designed to drive a car's aux in, but instead a much smaller load like ear buds.
Having said that, the source material matters too. Looking at the NPR selection, they're almost all trivial to encode assuming a reasonable bitrate (64kbps might be obvious, especially if it's mp3 and not AAC, but 96 or 128 might be hard to tell from 256 and above). Even the few more difficult to encode pieces aren't really that heavy on the sorts of combinations that lead to noticeable aliasing when using perceptual audio encoding methods. The NPR setup is using 128kbps, 320kbps, and uncompressed WAV - with any modern software these should be basically indistinguishable for nearly all sources. Mobile streaming services are far more likely to use 64kbps and/or 96bkps as their lower tier, though it helps that some of them use AAC instead of MP3. If the NPR test wanted to really test your ability to discern bitrates, they should have had a lower bitrate in the mix.
Comparing for example, some more difficult to encode (due to the artificial nature of sounds used) source, like some (but by no means all) Daft Punk songs as an example, using Amazon Prime music, the lowest setting is audibly garbage, the middle and high settings are closer but in some sections I can tell the difference.
However, listening environment (which includes the listener themselves) and playback device make a bigger difference once you get past the lowest tier of audio encoding. I used to listen to streaming audio using the analog aux input on my Mazda 3, but once I finally got a decent bluetooth adapter (which also is connected via aux in, but is using BT from the phone instead of the phone's headphone output), the difference was quite noticeable, especially in the low end. The phone's headphone output just wasn't designed to drive a car's aux in, but instead a much smaller load like ear buds.
That's what I mean. Because I could hear the difference, clearly, it implies slacker ISNT at 128 because I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and it implies it is at 64kbps.
Spotify was at 160kbps.
Yes you literally have to change the bitrate on each.
That makes sense since your computer likely has a different data allowance than your phone. Slacker wouldn't force you to eat up cellular data at high quality, especially if your cell data is slow and can't handle the stream.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Or you are.
I just took the quiz. To be extra granular I noted my picks for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best before clicking each answer.
In all 6 examples I rated what turned out to be the 128kb sample dead last.
I did get the WAV and 320kb file mixed up a couple of times, as those are much nearer in quality- but it was obvious which the 128kb was every single time.
To be fair- I have a pretty good stereo system I was listening on. If you are listening on the crap earbuds that came with a cheap phone or something your results might not match mine.
But with a GOOD stereo system (which the PUP model 3 supposedly has too), yes, you can absolutely tell 64 or 128kb low-quality MP3s from high-quality ones or uncompressed stuff.
Correct.
I posted the link from slackers website telling you that earlier in the thread.
Why would you assume the tesla app magically works different from everything else?
If it uses the settings on the device it'll use the settings on the device. The device (the Model 3 slacker app) is set to 64kb with no way to change it- so that's what you get.
The S/X used to have a way to actually change this setting- the 3 does not have such a setting yet.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Well then...
Since I most certainly am in the Potato ear crowd, it appears that I should choose 128 (or maybe 192) kbps instead of a higher bitrate that I cannot perceive and will just clog the pipe.
Since I most certainly am in the Potato ear crowd, it appears that I should choose 128 (or maybe 192) kbps instead of a higher bitrate that I cannot perceive and will just clog the pipe.
irishndude4
Member
I just wanted to add that I have clicked the search field and I have entered a song I have chosen and it has played that song immediately, i.e. Imagine Dragons "Thunder". It played Thunder but then after it played a similar song in "Thunder" radio a couple songs later, played another Imagine Dragons song.
mickificki
Member
Does this mean you’re streaming thru slacker in 320 kbps thru your phone and via Bluetooth to the m3? So, in essence, using your own cell phone data streaming?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You can certainly change quality on your phone (with the right level of slacker account) to 320, the phone would stream to the car at whatever rate each supports....not sure how documented that is on the 3, but I know on the S it at least supported (for iphones) 256kb AAC over BT.
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
Well, the manual (which could be related to a UI update) and Tesla’s email disagree. They say the quality is enhanced with the Slacker Premium subscription. This would mean Slacker streams to your account at a higher rate than the standard subscription.
If you get your own Slacker account and go for the $10 a month premium plan then you can play nothing but a specific artist without similar artists mixing in. It also allows you to play the same song as many times as you want instead of only once every 24 hours with the built-in Tesla account and you can play entire albums as well. I just upgraded to a premium account a few days ago to try it out and I’ve been pleased so far. Still not sure if I’ve noticed any improvement in audio quality (set to 320kbps in the iOS app).
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Teslas email also disagrees with Slacker themselves- who say you need to change it on the specific platform- and that changes made elsewhere won't carry over.
Just as the manual says you only get higher quality if you change the setting on the car (which is impossible since the 3 doesn't offer that setting)
So the preponderance of evidence suggests Teslas email is wrong. (and wrong answers from tesla support and sales people seem pretty common)
Possibly the guy replying was just ignorant of the fact that unlike the S/X, the 3 has never had the "adjust streaming quality" setting exposed in the UI...and he was giving you the "correct" answer for when you could set that on the S/X and assuming the same thing worked for the 3.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
64 kbps since that's the default in the tesla app and there's no way to set it higher on the car app in the 3.
Unless, for some weird reason, Slacker thinks your car is your phone or a desktop PC.
Slackers website said:
Thats the key isn't it? We don't really know what platform the car is seen as to Slacker.
I currently have a 64G USB key thats full of 320 music but haven't tried the ear test yet, if I can't tell the difference past 128 I'm going to wipe my USB key and reload it with 128k and get more music on there
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Well, I think S/X owners reported that the car app didn't change its own setting until they changed it on the car, so that seems like it is its own platform and can't be changed on the 3 at present.
See this thread-
Tesla Forcing Slacker to Stream in Low Quality?
In particular-
