Slate article: "The Trolls Among Us"

[bonnie]

Really interesting Slate article, proposing that we should lose our anonymity on the internet.

Multiple experiments have shown that perceptions of an article, its writer, or its subject can be profoundly shaped by anonymous online commentary, especially if it is harsh.

If all of this commentary were spontaneous, then this would simply be an interesting psychological phenomenon. But it is not. A friend who worked for a public relations company in Europe tells of companies that hire people to post, anonymously, positive words on behalf of their clients and negative words about rivals. Political parties of various kinds, in various countries, are rumored to do the same.

And then there was the female gamer who decided to deal with rude comments by contacting their moms on Facebook. (Loved this one!)

I've long looked at this forum and recognized there are many members who behave exactly as they would in person (thank you ) & others who, behind the wall of anonymity, say things they'd never say if not on a forum (you know who you are).

All in all, an interesting topic for discussion - perhaps over the holiday table.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Good one, Bonnie. Thanks. Sometimes, I wonder if technology brings out many of our latent negative traits such as cowardice, aggression, misogyny and so on. One could get in serious trouble very quickly if they exhibited those in real life so, hiding behind a keyboard is an easy out. Having said that, there are always the issues of privacy and security that'd preclude the use of real names in some situations.

 

[Rockster]

I've long looked at this forum and recognized there are many members who behave exactly as they would in person (thank you ) & others who, behind the wall of anonymity, say things they'd never say...

I tend to view behavior as influenced by Internet anonymity like I do the effect of alcohol on behavior: People don't act like a-holes because they were drunk, they simply more readily reveal that they are a-holes because they were drunk.

 

[ModelX]

I agree that anonymity probably needs to go away for most of the Internet! I don't think that aggression and rudeness, which seem higher with anonymity, are the path we want our society to follow.

 

[bonnie]

I'm torn. On the side of losing anonymity ... better behavior & decrease in people making a living by commenting for a political party or business interest. Against ... well, I'd say privacy. But most people do very little to protect their privacy beyond an anonymous username. Their IP isn't masked, they use the same username on a number of forums, etc. So privacy really isn't as big of a deal as people say it is. So is it really just the perception of privacy?

I can also tell you of some uncomfortable situations where, because I use my first name here, I've been tracked across other social media sites like facebook, by people who clearly were not doing it for friendly purposes. Had I used a different username it would probably have been enough of a barrier to prevent that from happening. But I'm also active enough in this community that people know my name anyway. So if I used a diff username, it would probably be a false perception of privacy.

It's one of those things that has no clear black or white answer. As always, the most interesting topics lie in the gray. Can't look up the answer somewhere, what is right for one is not right for another.

 

[JRP3]

I think there are more good reasons than bad to allow anonymity for those who want it. The ability to speak the truth without repercussion is quite valuable to society. Yes it also allows lying without repercussion, but I think in the end the truth will always win out.

 

[bonnie]

I think there are more good reasons than bad to allow anonymity for those who want it. The ability to speak the truth without repercussion is quite valuable to society. Yes it also allows lying without repercussion, but I think in the end the truth will always win out.

It would be nice, though, if the paid commenters could be weeded out somehow. That *truth* doesn't seem to be winning out in a lot of cases.

I'm not sure what the gain is on 'speaking truth without repercussion' is that is gained with anonymity. Most of us are comfortable speaking the truth without anonymity in real life. Why do we need it all of a sudden in electronic form? And do we really have it? Or do we just think we do? (I'd argue that we do not.)

 

[AudubonB]

Some of us already are identity-open on this forum (Curt Renz is another who immediately comes to mind). I can vouch that being open in that regard absolutely, positively assists in maintaining a civil atmosphere in all its aspects.

Somehow, though, it hasn't stopped my doggerel. Have to keep working on that one....

 

[JRP3]

Certainly there are degrees of anonymity, but unless you are a forum administrator or moderator I don't think the average person has the ability to find out a person's identity without quite a bit of legwork if one is reasonably careful. I can state that on more than one occasion I've been able to continue commenting on articles after being "banned" from certain places There are ways to hide an IP address too.

 

[Larry93428]

I am surprised people want to hide their identity. Are their opinions so toxic?
Also, I see people obliterate their license plate - unless it is personalized.
Is there sense in that?
~Larry

 

[ggr]

Unfortunately, without (the possibility of) anonymity, there are many really bad things that can, and do, happen to society. If nothing else, the simple chilling effect on speech critical of the government is bad enough, and has been demonstrated many times. I'm active in the local ACLU, and we have a number of active first amendment cases at any given time. The framers of the US Bill of Rights obviously thought this was an extremely important right, that's why they made it number 1. I think what is needed is a recognition that paid anonymous recommendations and/or attacks are a form of spam, and regulation under something like an extended CAN-SPAM act in the US (not that that has been particularly helpful). Sorry that this is getting close to politics.

PS. I don't consider my user name to be anonymous, it's just my initials, that go back to pre-history when I was mhtsa!ggr, and [email protected], and such things. I'm Greg Rose, and though there are many of us, you should be able to figure out which one easily enough if you want to. That said, I really believe in the need for anonymous speech on the Interwebs.

 

[bonnie]

I don't think anyone is arguing taking away the right to anonymity, ggr. I'm certainly not.

But let's talk specifically about a forum like this. Should there be anonymity? This isn't someplace where people NEED anonymity to be protected. (A car forum is not some place where the ACLU would be concerned with protecting rights.) Would lack of anonymity weed out those that are paid to place certain types of messages here or have other interests at play? Would people behave differently?

Removing anonymity is not under discussion by the forum, btw. Just an interesting thought brought on by the article and other stuff I've read recently.

 

[JRP3]

There are people who become obsessed with others for various reasons. I think anonymity in any forum allows rational people to avoid being harassed by the irrational. If someone is going off on me in a comment thread or forum I can choose to ignore them. If they know who I really am and get my phone number or address it could become a problem. That possibility would certainly curtail my posting activity. Of course a certain population of individuals would probably welcome that :wink:

 

[Pollux]

This forum is well-moderated, so anonymity doesn't lead to significant nastiness here. IMHO, it's a good balance; people can remain anonymous if they wish, but overall discourse remains fairly civil. I suspect that the balance comes at an increased cost of moderator time and/or number of moderators. And then perhaps to the problem of, "who moderates the moderators"?

Alan

I don't think anyone is arguing taking away the right to anonymity, ggr. I'm certainly not.

But let's talk specifically about a forum like this. Should there be anonymity? This isn't someplace where people NEED anonymity to be protected. (A car forum is not some place where the ACLU would be concerned with protecting rights.) Would lack of anonymity weed out those that are paid to place certain types of messages here or have other interests at play? Would people behave differently?

Removing anonymity is not under discussion by the forum, btw. Just an interesting thought brought on by the article and other stuff I've read recently.

 

[bonnie]

And then perhaps to the problem of, "who moderates the moderators"?

doug.

- - - Updated - - -

I suspect that the balance comes at an increased cost of moderator time and/or number of moderators.

... and moderator abuse, at times. Some more than others (speaking for others). I haven't gotten the worst of it.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Most of us are comfortable speaking the truth without anonymity in real life. Why do we need it all of a sudden in electronic form? And do we really have it? Or do we just think we do? (I'd argue that we do not.)

Excellent points.

Some of us already are identity-open on this forum (Curt Renz is another who immediately comes to mind). I can vouch that being open in that regard absolutely, positively assists in maintaining a civil atmosphere in all its aspects.

Agreed. I'm not a celebrity like Curt, but I also prefer to reveal my real name. As much as I am addicted to this forum, it is after all just a forum. If I feel that I need anonymity before I post something, then obviously the subject is simply not worth discussing in public. The world won't stop spinning just be because Larry refrained from expressing his opinion on TMC. :wink:

Larry

 

[richkae]

Anonymity makes a lot of people behave very poorly. I think this aspect of the internet is dehumanizing.

The secondary effect of anonymity is that you can have as many personas as you want. If you offend and alienate a particular community, you can come back and start over as many times as you want.

I would love a magic technology that allowed people to have anonymity, but also limits them to one persona so that they have to live with the consequences of everything they do and say. Anonymity protects the individual, but accountability protects society.

 

[Rheazombi]

I feel like we're forgetting the basic premise of anonymity: privacy. Frankly, almost nobody I know even knows I have a Model S and I like to keep it that way.

 

[JRP3]

If I feel that I need anonymity before I post something, then obviously the subject is simply not worth discussing in public. The world won't stop spinning just be because Larry refrained from expressing his opinion on TMC. :wink:

Larry

But the world may be missing out on hearing an unconventional but possibly enlightening viewpoint. There is a long history of persecution of "radical" ideas that are eventually proven to be true.

 

[tigerade]

Relevant: How to Argue with Assholes - YouTube