Slow Supercharging & Incomplete Charging

[Tam]

...owning a car that only worked as advertised for the first year of ownership...

I already suspected that when I first heard of Supercharger rate. If the fast rate is consistent, Tesla would put that marketing specs in the warranty.

Despite of that, I was hoping that the trend of charging rate will be up due to technology and not down!

However, over the years, I observe from Tesla that the trend for charging rate has been to be focused on how to slow it down and not to increase it!

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Older Model S could charge at 80A, newer S and X can only charge up to 72A with HPWC.

Gen1 Mobile Connector can charge up to 40A but newer Gen2 can only charge up to 32A.

Given that the focus of Tesla is to slow down charging rate, your solutions for faster road trip might be:

1) Get a new battery or whole new Tesla every year or 6 months.
2) Get the longest range battery you can get to compensate for the slow charge. Currently it's 100kW
3) Get 620 mile Gen2 Roadster so you can charge at home and at destination instead of in the middle of the trip.

 

[m2140]

When you charge it normally at home, and set it to 100%, what does it stop at?
-Jim

At home just like at the superchargers, it stops anywhere between 96-99%. I only see about 15 min extra charging which at home that is nothing when charging takes 4.5 hrs. ( have dual chargers charging at 80amps)

 

[m2140]

The rates you quoted above (116kW at 3% and 36kW at 80%) are appropriate for an 85kWh car. Have you compared other SoC and charge rate points in the video to a reasonableness test of 120kW rate less SoC = charge rate?

I have not, Like I said i have not really focused on the KW rate during charging till recently. I trusted that Tesla would be looking at that during the logs review. As it turns out, they were only focused on the brick levels.

I do recall thinking on the last test that 116kw seemed a little low. I have seen higher initial rates on previous charging attempts. But I cannot recall for sure. Usually, If i don't get over 100kw initially with a batter SoC of less than 20% i stop charging and reconnect to see if I can get a better rate. Most times I do. Sometimes I cant due to sharing a charge or whatever. After the feedback from the forum here, I am looking more closely into KW rates and so is Tesla. at least I hope they are based on the last conversation with the service manager.

 

[thefortunes]

116kW is certainly not low, as most SuC deployed to date are max 120kW.

The newest SuC have the possibility of 135kW, but even the latest installations around here are still 120kW max.

Again, for an 85kWh car use 120kW - SoC to estimate if you are receiving what you "should" (for a non-shared stall).

 

[Bebop]

You have dual chargers and getting those numbers? Strange. Hopefully service center fixes this issue for you.

I get to “100%” in 1 hour and 10 minutes.

 

[thefortunes]

You have dual chargers and getting those numbers? Strange. Hopefully service center fixes this issue for you.

I get to “100%” in 1 hour and 10 minutes.

Dual chargers have nothing to do with supercharging, only level I or level II charging.

 

[TexasEV]

Dual chargers have nothing to do with supercharging, only level I or level II charging.

Actually not level 1 (120V) charging either. The old “dual chargers” come come into play when AC charging above 40A. That means HPWC or J1772 with output >40A.

 

[thefortunes]

Actually not level 1 (120V) charging either. The old “dual chargers” come come into play when AC charging above 40A. That means HPWC or J1772 with output >40A.

You are correct, of course. My silly mistake.

 

[David99]

I don't understand why everyone is giving him such a hard time. 2 hours for a full charge at a Supercharger is way longer than normal and stopping at 96-98% is also not normal either. My car is pretty old and Supercharging speed is reduced significantly since it was new, but it's not anywhere near as bad as he described so I would say, he has a valid point that this is not OK. He also gave Tesla many chances to fix it but they just say it would be normal. I would be just as frustrated.

Please don't suggest 'balancing the battery' because it's a total myth and there is absolutely no official information from Tesla regarding balancing. It's a theory repeated over and over here that has been debunked by looking at the CAN bus data. There are battery packs that are just fine in terms of balancing yet they do not charge to 100% for some reasons. Furthermore there is no official procedure nor recommendation from Tesla how to balance the battery. My own data from the CAN bus, the battery never gets out of balance enough for it to make a noticeable difference in charging speed nor range.

If what he describes is accurate, something is not right.

 

[thefortunes]

I certainly haven't given him a hard time re: not being able to charge to 100% (which I agree isn't correct), but am trying to educate him that a SuC rate of 116kW (or 36kW at 80% SoC) is not "too low" nor can he actually get from 0-80% in 30 minutes (impossible).

The problem is many people do not understand max kW rates or the taper curve, and just look at the (useless) mi/hr that they see when supercharging and complain that it isn't hitting 350 mi/hr "like they used to" no matter what their SoC, ambient temp, etc... is.

 

[David99]

The peak starting rate is almost meaningless in terms of the 85 battery packs. My old pack also starts at 116 kW. The difference is how fast and by how much it tapers down. That's not obvious during normal use. You plug in, see the high charge rate, think everything is OK and walk away. The fact is decreases quicker is only notiecable if you carefully compare logs. I have done so and noticed a 25% longer charge time on average. Now while that's annoying it's not the huge. Taking 2 hours for a full charge and then prematurely stopping below 99% is a sign of something not right, especially for that age/mileage.

But again, only logging the data from the car would give accurate timing and charge rate and would enable us to compare. People often have quite different perceptions of time. Einstein knew all about it LOL

 

[m2140]

Ok so here is an update.

I waited a couple of weeks to write this because, well i'm pissed & disappointed.

According to Tesla:
- Supercharging stops taking 2 hrs or more = Normal. Nothing Wrong
- Charge not completed (stopping at 96-99% when set to 100%) = Normal. Nothing Wrong

They kept the car almost 2 week and did a couple of supercharger test and comparisons. Took them a while because the bearing on the front wheel hubs had to be replaced because they were making noise. Yet another issue on this car. BTW it still not fixed. I still get the noise.

Anyways, They tested charging my car and compared it to several other 85KW models. 1 of the same year and 2 older ones. They all used the same supercharger in Cabazon and they all saw the same behavior. One took over 20 minutes longer to charge than mine, almost 2.5 hrs. Mine completed at 99% and so did at least 1 other. I was told these other cars were part of their loaner & CPO inventory. Charging to 80% SOC took 45-50 minutes on all the cars.


How the **** can I take a trip in this car?
- I cant rely on the car to give me an accurate charge time estimate.
- I cant rely on the trip computer to properly calculate charge times. Almost always have to double
- How can I go across the country when some supercharger stops can take 2 hrs +
- I cant rely on getting a full charge


I've lost confidence in my Model S.
I feel cheated. The passion I once has for Tesla is gone.

We have a Model 3 now, and i cannot enjoy that car either. I'm afraid of what surprises that car is going to have.


Here is a list of issues My 2015 Model S has had in the last 2.5 years:

• Autopilot camera failed (windshield cam)
• Frunk panels warped after 26k miles
• Front bumper cover sagging (happened Multiple times)
• x2 Condenser fan failed
• x3 Door Handles failed
• Loose GPS antenna harness
• Arm Rest cover broke
• Both from seats replaced due to loose fitment (took 3-4 months)
• x2 12 volt batteries (1 battery per year)
• Wont charge to 100% in cold weather
• Slow Supercharging
• Main Battery replaced at 42k miles
• Horn failed
• Wheel wells warped & started rubbing
• Dashboard display failed
• Passenger window grinding and gets stuck
• Front wheel bearings replaced due to tumbling noise. (still not fixed)

I know it's a lot of little issues with only 1 or 2 big issues. But most of these happened before 40k miles.
My last 2 Ford Trucks have had far less issues. My current Ford Truck that I beet up in the desert every weekend has had far less issues.

My model 3, Less than 3 months old has already had more issues than my truck
1. Poorly installed Driver door panel - screws were not installed all the way
2. Improperly torqued windshield wipers - They actually damaged the pain on the Frunk & had to be replaced.


Thanks for all those that helped and provided suggestions. They really helped me understand what is going on with my car. But at the end of the day my car is still not working right, Tesla Refuses to acknowledge there is something wrong, and there is no one else to take it to for a 2nd opinion. I'm done with My Model S and counting the days to get rid of it. We still have the Model 3, so I'm not done with Tesla, but if they treat the Model 3 like they did my S, The company is headed for a rude awakening with a less educated public now buying EV's.

 

[David99]

According to Tesla:
- Supercharging stops taking 2 hrs or more = Normal. Nothing Wrong
- Charge not completed (stopping at 96-99% when set to 100%) = Normal. Nothing Wrong

While my car doesn't supercharge that slow it is also significantly slower than it used to be. Tesla also said it's not, that's what happens, it gets slower over time. But my car has 150k miles and is 4 years old. Yours should not be slower. There is something else going on with your car and any time Tesla doesn't want to fix it they say it's 'normal'.
There was a time when many owners experienced much slower Supercharging. Mostly it was reduced to 60 kW for no obvious reason. Many people contacted Tesla and the answer was always the same generic thing: Supercharging rate can vary and lots of things affect it. There definitely was an issue. I and many other have experienced it over and over. And after some time Tesla fixed it. Now it works fine again. Tesla never admitted it and never said how they fixed it.

There is something off with your car, they just don't want to deal with it.

 

[jaguar36]

Why did you get a Model 3 if you hated Tesla so much?

 

[m2140]

While my car doesn't supercharge that slow it is also significantly slower than it used to be. Tesla also said it's not, that's what happens, it gets slower over time. But my car has 150k miles and is 4 years old. Yours should not be slower. There is something else going on with your car and any time Tesla doesn't want to fix it they say it's 'normal'.
There was a time when many owners experienced much slower Supercharging. Mostly it was reduced to 60 kW for no obvious reason. Many people contacted Tesla and the answer was always the same generic thing: Supercharging rate can vary and lots of things affect it. There definitely was an issue. I and many other have experienced it over and over. And after some time Tesla fixed it. Now it works fine again. Tesla never admitted it and never said how they fixed it.

There is something off with your car, they just don't want to deal with it.

I agree. But at this point, unless a ton of people complain, mine will continue to work as it is. Not sure what I can do next.

 

[m2140]

Why did you get a Model 3 if you hated Tesla so much?

Dude Seriously?

Model 3 Orders opened up Apr 2016. I placed my Model 3 order on day 1. and got it Jan 2018
My Model S didn't start having Charging problems till Dec 2016. 5 months after we placed our Model 3 Order.

Up until Feb 2018, Tesla was still working the issue. Based on discussion with the service center, I had faith they would figure it out and fix it. That was just squashed. You want me to be OK with that?

My wife drives the Model 3. She's very happy with it. But it's clear to me, all of Tesla energy and resources is in the Model 3. The current versions of the Model S seem to be more of a burden they would rather ignore.

 

[demundus]

Just to pile in for fun:

• I am about 50 miles from the OP, city to city. I've also charged at the Temecula mall SC several times coming back from Big Bear
• I have 120k on my 2013 85s (dual chargers, but that doesn't matter here as previously pointed out)
• I have some pretty bad degradation, 2nd most (about 15% from advertised max) in WK's network
• I've never tried to charge to 100% at ANY SC because it takes forever, this was an expectation set by Tesla early and often... charging to full on DC/DC is not a fun experience
• I can get near 80% from the low-teens in about 45 mins.

All this to say, I've accepted this as normal, since theres an infinite amount of external factors that play into how my car charges.

 

[Mike_F]

Please explain to me why you continually want to charge to 100%, that alone does more damage to your battery than anything else. Sounds like a self inflicted wound. I suggest you read your owner's manual and hire a better attorney.

 

[David99]

Please explain to me why you continually want to charge to 100%, that alone does more damage to your battery than anything else. Sounds like a self inflicted wound. I suggest you read your owner's manual and hire a better attorney.

Tesloop charges to 100% on a daily basis. Many people do. While it does cause a little degradation it's completely irrelevant to the issue he has. His charge time is almost twice of what it should be and the car should charge to 100% every time you need to or want to.

 

[Axael]

It's good that Tesla has taken down all those claims from its current website but m2140 has already heard those claims, read those claims and saw those claims.

Well they didn't remove them completely, see here: Supercharger | Tesla
The graph is dynamic and isn't clear, but it clearly shows a 80% SOC in 30 minutes, and a full charge in about 1 hour and 25 minutes.