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Slower Than Usual Supercharging

Discussion in 'Mid-Atlantic' started by EdisonFire, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. EdisonFire

    EdisonFire Member

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    I thought to post this in the larger S forum but figured the Mid-Atlantic region would reflect better the SuC's in this area plus same weather conditions. I've found over the past several weeks that whether I'm at a full or relatively empty SuC location, my 2015 S 70D has been charging way slower. Yes its been colder out but many times I have driven 75-150 miles prior to charging so I don't think the batteries are too cold. Yesterday, I moved the charge limit from 85% to 100% in hopes the charger would sense I needed way more miles and wouldn't throttle slower. The charging rates (Bernards NJ) showed 36kW 125 mil/hr and in first 12 minutes I added 16 miles. Over the past weekend I charged at Marlton and received similar slow results. In both cases I had below 100 miles in battery so it did have a good charging buffer to get to 85% or in y'days case to 100%. At home I consistently get 29 mi/hr from 220 14-50 outlet. For historical purposes, I've only dropped from a full charge of 240 miles to 229 miles over past 4 years so that's only a 5% loss in capacity which isn't bad compared to many other comments.

    Question #1 Has anyone noticed similar slow charging recently, especially on older vehicles?
    Question #2 Can anyone recommend an App that tracks all charging sessions yet maintains security? At least with that
    type of App, the evidence backing my hunch would be empirical rather than a gut feel.
     
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  2. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    Check out the "Sudden Loss of Range" thread that has grown to immense proportions.

    Tesla foisted two software updates upon us in May-June and again in July-August. The earlier one reduced the cell voltage from about 4.2 to 4.1 volts per cell, thereby reducing range and performance in our vehicles. The later one gimped the Supercharging rates in our cars. It appears that both these updates primarily affected pre-facelift S and X vehicles.

    For me personally, it now takes close to an hour to recharge from 20% to around 75%. In those halcyon days of yore, the same recharge took around 35 minutes. Even at 10% battery, the maximum rate is around 82-84kW dropping quickly.

    Welcome to the club!
     
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  3. EdisonFire

    EdisonFire Member

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    CPA, you have depressed me
     
  4. webbah

    webbah Member

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  5. webbah

    webbah Member

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    Note that the cold weather makes a huge difference. Especially on the Model S/X’s with 85 packs.
     
  6. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    Sorry, truly sorry. There is a class action lawsuit scheduled for mediation in late January or early February. Not sure what will come from this mediation. The morning line is 7-2 for moving onto discovery. But we shall see. Crossing our fingers that Tesla does right by us.
     
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  7. kevinf311

    kevinf311 Member

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    Just throwing my hat into the list of folks that sees reduced charging speed.

    I'm of split opinion, really. If my slowed rate of charge will guarantee longevity of my pack and its remaining capacity (down from 265 to 257 then closer to 250 after the update) then I might feel ok with that being the lesser of two evils. If the newer packs have some magic in them that allows them to take on charge and the higher/highest rates without long term damage to the cells then, yes, I'd like for Tesla to find some way to show us that they care about our older cars and that the supercharger V1 speeds on old packs were causing undue damage and then make that right.

    Guess I'll wait and see.
     
  8. EdisonFire

    EdisonFire Member

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    I would presume as far as SuC usage though, as more and more 3's hit the roads, and Y's upcoming, it would be beneficial for cars to connect and disconnect from a Supercharger quickly so the next car could connect. If it takes me 15-20 longer to 'fill up' on a long road trip, that Supercharger is not available to the next user. Multiply that by 2 or 3 users at a site, and that location becomes clogged. As far as Class action lawsuit, is there a way to check whether one's particular vehicle is part of the class? Also any recommendations of 3rd party software to track usage/charging history etc while still maintaining a measure of privacy
     
  9. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    Each and every one of us with pre-facelift Model S and X with 60, 70, and 81, er, 85kWh batteries is included in the suit. Mediation is scheduled for February 20 or so. Either side can elect out of this mediation with thirty days' notice. The results of this mediation are supposed to be delivered to the court within 30 days of the meeting for judicial disposition.

    I do not practice law, so take what I say with a modicum of salt. The lead plaintiff will agree or disagree with any proposed mediated settlement for all us in the affected class. If there is a settlement, we other members of the class can affirmatively opt out of the class and pursue our own remedies; otherwise, we agree to the settlement negotiated by the lead plaintiff and his counsel. We cannot pursue another remedy on the same issues later.

    If there is no mediated settlement, or if one side backs out, we are back to this suit working its way through the court system. The judge will have to grant class-action status early on (probably a foregone conclusion since the number of affected vehicles is quite large). Then it is the dreaded long game of discovery and pretrial litigation before the trial date.

    Our 2014 Model S with 66,500 miles on the odometer had a 100% charge at 255 miles or so back in early May when I drove to Cincinnati. This range stayed constant until about a month ago. It started dropping to 248, 240, 236, and as of today it is at 229.
     
  10. WATTS-UP

    WATTS-UP Member

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    MY 2014 MODEL S 60 ( MARCH) at 100% charge made it to 208. The best I get now is 166 at the trip setting down from 186.
    I would like to know if TESLA will ever allow us to up grade our batteries. Given that the new Model S can now get more then 300
    mile on a single charge.
     
  11. iRia

    iRia Member

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    Chargegate is partially (majorly) to blame but winter time supercharging is much slower when batteries are cold.

    Some superchargers are have really horridly slow rates. I am not sure why, but I suspect it has to do with not wanting to trigger demand charges. Paramus NJ for example - apart from being overcrowded and having the service center use it to charge deliveries and loaners, it is just painfully slow a lot of times for seemingly no reason.
     
  12. EdisonFire

    EdisonFire Member

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    #12 EdisonFire, Jan 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
    upload_2020-1-17_16-51-19.png Here is an image of recent SuC sessions. Car is Tesla 2015 70D. Rated at 240 Miles, now slow charging at home to 100% yields 228 Miles (I can live with that) In all cases the vehicle had been operating for an hour prior to charging so battery warmth likely wasn't a factor. As can be seen regardless of % battery capacity, I'm charging at roughly 1 to 2.25 Miles per minute at different SuC's. At home I charge at roughly 1 mile every 2 minutes off 14-50 outlet. A Supercharger should be faster. At these rates, I wouldn't even consider doing a road trip with the car. I have to do a road trip to Canada soon. Adding colder temps than NJ, slow charging en route. I know there is a mention of a class action lawsuit but my gut simply feels like pre-facelift owners have been royally screwed.
     
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  13. crashvt

    crashvt Member

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    This is exactly why I haven’t thought about taking my 70D on any road trips. It has now become a commuter car. We have to take my wife’s SUVs which my kids love, but I hate to drive.
     
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  14. vdiv

    vdiv Chief Grump

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    My 70D has about 78k miles now, same story. Supercharging and DC fast charging in the 30s kW even with warm battery, the displayed estimated time to finish is way shorter than the actual time. Alas it's my only car so all trips are done in it.
     
  15. SooooBlu777

    SooooBlu777 New Member

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    2016 90D
    TBH this is very frustrating when I got the car last year pre-owned from Tesla my charging rate was consistently 230 to 280 mi/hr
    Sinse the update in December the charging rate is always between 150 and 160.
    We now have a 250 kw station you would think I would get better here... Nope the place is almost empty I'm at stall with no cars next to me rate is 165 mi/hr
    What is the reason behind this?
    Does anyone know?
     
  16. vdiv

    vdiv Chief Grump

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    We don't know, there are theories and speculations, nothing official from Tesla, so read this with a giant grain of salt, this could be all wrong. Because the reduction is so broad it was caused intentionally by Tesla, speculation is it was as a precaution due to a concern with battery overheating/hot spots. It has been observed that coolant circulation pumps now start early and run longer when charging and the cells are no longer fully charged.

    Tesla did deploy a better HV battery onboard diagnostic routine (in 2019.40.2.3 perhaps) according to the release notes, but it has not made any results available to the affected by the reduction cars. Another speculation is Tesla has already found which batteries may actually have an issue and has restored charging speed to the rest with 2020.4.1.

    We all wish Tesla was more upfront with the issue and remedies, but investor madness and pending lawsuits may be the excuse why this has not happened.
     

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