Smart Air suspension confirmed for Model 3

[mongo]

Thanks! I didn't know that the camber was automatically adjusted (not that I really looked in to it at all).

It's not automatically adjusted, it changes with ride height due to the mechanical arrangement of the linkages. If it had active camber, then the height would not cause uneven tire wear. Suspensions typically change camber to alter the tire angle during cornering to maximize the contact patch. Car corners -> car leans to outside of curve -> top of wheel tips to inside of curve -> bottom of tire stays horizontalish.

I wonder if one could get the alignment done in the low position vs normal...

 

[tony b]

I'm getting AWD because I live in snowy mountains but I was not planning on getting the air suspension because of trying to save money. I guess i can now just hope the package is reasonably priced

 

[cab]

So one thing folks may be overlooking here is the ride quality of the Model 3 could lean HEAVILY towards the "sport" end of the spectrum and be considerably more firm than people realize. The availability of the air suspension could go a LONG WAY to smoothing that out.

See my post here which references the Motor Trend Review: Suspension / Ride Quality / Handling - Too firm or Just Right?

For those who don't want to read that thread, here was my original post:

History
So I tend to be pretty obsessive when it comes to the ride quality and handling balance on cars. Years ago I felt this was practically a BMW trademark. Lots of cars handle well, but often beat you up in the process. BMW managed to master the balance (great handling with really good ride quality).

With the advent of run-flat tires and the "all wheels must be gigantic" (compared to years past) syndrome, ride quality seems to have suffered. Indeed, BMW is a perfect example of this. They introduced run-flat tires on most of their cars several years ago (presumably to save weight on a spare and have better packaging) and ride quality went to pot (even handling took a hit). They seem to be recovering with each generation, but it has been a long haul and, in many ways, between this and electric power steering they still aren't back to where they were (IMO) in the glory days.

Model S and X
ANYWAY, in my test drives of the Model S, I felt the air suspension was a must have as it seemed to shave a very noticeable amount of harshness off of impacts, etc. It was a "must have" for me when I purchased (ironically, I ended up with a P85+ where air was the only option anyway). It isn't uncommon to hear other owners comment on the "firm" ride in their Ses and Xes here on TMC either (even with air on may cases).

Model 3
That brings me to the Model 3. When I saw the Model 3 would NOT have an air suspension option, I sort of cringed a little as I wondered if Tesla would "get the damping right" for the struts/shocks. While the reviews (really, little more than very short drives" are sparse, the Motor Trend review and video seems particularly telling. The written review notes the handling is, frankly, pretty d*mn good. They compare it to the Alfa Romeo Giulia and "maybe even Quadrafoglio" - the Alfa has gotten very good reviews for its handling so I consider this high praise. However, the Quadrafoglio is Alfa's version of a BMW M3, Audi RS4, Cadillac's ATS-V or Mercedes AMG C-Class and those cars can have a suspension that, while cool when "carving corners" gets old in day-to-day driving. In a recent comparison between the M3/ATS-V/AMG/Qudrafoglio we see a split. The Germans did NOT ride well, but the Caddy and Alfa did. In both cases, those cars came with adjustable dampers which usually have different modes (i.e. comfort/sport/etc) and are "active" (dynamically changing) in every mode. We don't get that in the case of the Model 3. We get ONE suspension tune. Indeed, in the Motor Trend video the FIRST thing Kym says to Hans when on the road is "First Impression? Ugh, I feel the road. Is this sort of a, um, sporty, firmer suspension?...So it's a sport oriented feel right off the bat". He goes on the further describe it as "nimble as heck", and comments on how there is a "nice bit of tremble through the steering" (giving good road feel).

Anyway, it sounds like car enthusiasts will LOVE it...everyone else...hmmm.

Excerpt from Car and Driver's Comparison of Cadillac ATS-V, BMW M3, Mercedes C63 AMG and Alfa Giulia Quadrafoglio (bolding is mine)
With the exception of Porsche’s 911 and 718 Boxster/Cayman, there is no other 1.00-g chassis that rides as well as the Giulia’s. The electronic dampers provide transcendent wheel control and somehow round off bumps that would ring through the BMW and Mercedes. Even in the hardest of the three modes, the suspension remains civil in a way that eludes the German sedans.

Excerpt from Motor Trend Review First Drive of Model 3 (bolding is mine)
What’s blanching, though, is the car’s ride and handling. If anybody was expecting a typical boring electric sedan here, nope. The ride is Alfa Giulia (maybe even Quadrifoglio)–firm, and quickly, I’m carving Stunt Road like a Sochi Olympics giant slalomer, micrometering my swipes at the apexes. I glance at Franz—this OK? “Go for it,” he nods. The Model 3 is so unexpected scalpel-like, I’m sputtering for adjectives. The steering ratio is quick, the effort is light (for me), but there’s enough light tremble against your fingers to hear the cornering negotiations between Stunt Road and these 235/40R19 tires (Continental ProContact RX m+s’s). And to mention body roll is to have already said too much about it. Sure, that battery is low, way down under the floor. But unlike the aluminum Model S, the Tesla Model 3 is composed of steel, too, and this car’s glass ceiling can’t be helping the center of gravity’s height. Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous.

Motor Trend First Drive Review (and video)
Exclusive: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review - Motor Trend

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes it does. AWD means you will be driving in less than optimal situations like snow where you need clearance.

And less than optimal acceleration. ( that's why I want it. )

 

[Garlan Garner]

Seriously though....

This is one thing I'm starting to struggle with with Tesla. Elon/Tesla knew that air suspension was going to be accompanied by AWD. Why don't they just tell people? Why does someone have to ask via twitter or something?

Are air-conditioned seats going to accompany AWD also? Maybe they know this...and maybe they don't.

Tesla - some folks need to adjust their budgets to be able afford some options and it takes time to do that. Please let us know whats happening as you come up with options and/or their prices please.

 

[Scannerman]

Elon Musk have now confirmed that SAS will be linked together with dual motor in about six months.

Elon Musk on Twitter

Do you think when Elon said "linked...", he meant in terms of the date when it is first offered, or for SAS to only be available as part of a package which includes dual motor?

Scannerman

 

[Scannerman]

Seriously though....

This is one thing I'm starting to struggle with with Tesla. Elon/Tesla knew that air suspension was going to be accompanied by AWD. Why don't they just tell people? Why does someone have to ask via twitter or something?

Are air-conditioned seats going to accompany AWD also? Maybe they know this...and maybe they don't.

Tesla - some folks need to adjust their budgets to be able afford some options and it takes time to do that. Please let us know whats happening as you come up with options and/or their prices please.

It appears to me that Elon is somewhat concerned, about the effect of providing information, which might prompt a large segment of the reservation holders to significantly delay delivery, (while waiting for certain future options).

Scannerman

 

[aronth5]

When Elon says "In about six months or so. Linked to dual motor config" what does that actually mean?
That SAS is automatically included when you add AWD as an option or that SAS will also be available and priced separately from AWD?
People are making assumptions without really understanding what Elon meant by "linked".

Of course as usual when Elon tweets he often raises more questions then he answers.
Knowing the price would certainly be nice

 

[Scannerman]

Heavy trucking and the bus transit segment all use air suspensions. I doubt they can afford to have an unreliable system on their platforms.

Heavy duty trucks use air routinely, in the seat suspension, sometimes in the suspension of the cab on the chasis, often in the suspension of the truck tractor chasis, and also trailer suspensions.

Anecdotally, I don't recall hearing about an excessive number of issues.

Scannerman

 

[Scannerman]

Forgot it was bundled. I wonder how much AWD will cost. AWD is definitely a good upgrade.

The quote is "linked...', not bundled. It appears to me that you may have jumped the gun, as to exactly what Elon meant.

I for one, would love to know for sure, how to interpret his tweet.

Scannerman

 

[Garlan Garner]

It appears to me that Elon is somewhat concerned, about the effect of providing information, which might prompt a large segment of the reservation holders to significantly delay delivery, (while waiting for certain future options).

Scannerman

What if Elon does not tell folks about the future options and November buyers get mad because of known January options that weren't presented?

 

[Scannerman]

What if Elon does not tell folks about the future options and November buyers get mad because of known January options that weren't presented?

I think your point is well taken, and in the long run it is hard to place a value on customer loyalty. Sometimes the benefits from being too strategically correct can create a long term negative effect.

Scannerman

 

[Lloyd]

That's great to hear, but I'm very curious to hear about the repair bills for S or X owners who've had to repair/replace them when they did fail out of warranty.

100K miles and one repair for a leaking line to the struts. Warranty repair.

 

[cronosx]

I'm already miffed that the car and every Tesla comes with the autopilot hardware installed, whether you want it or not. How much does the autopilot hardware add to the production cost of the car?...Maybe $6,000-$10,000?? I've said it before in other posts, Tesla needs to put the autopilot hardware in a Tesla when the customer requests autopilot, and not before. How many people would like to pay maybe a $25,000 Model 3 starting price because Tesla didn't add all the useless autopilot hardware to the car that people don't want? There are lots of cars on the street with auto-braking and they don't have autopilot.

Probably LOT LOT less ( stripping down all of it i means.. maybe 2.000? probably less, a camera/radar doesn't cost that much), and you need camera/radar etc for the satefy issue, so you need the gpu etc and at least 1/3 of the cameras, considering that the "optional" part is only a bouch of 3$ camera and some wires.. i would say that you can keep for yourself what? 500$ at max?
And you lose a lot in reselling value, of course they need to change the assembly line just for who don't want it etc, so definitely not worth it.

You are over-estimating greatly the cost for them of the autopilot, wich is for the most part linked to the gpu ( wich you need! ) and the software ( wich is optional )

I would say that other cars have what you want ( like the leaf or similar ), since the really, really, different cost is on the supercharger structure wich is bundled in the car ( you pay, with every car, the cost for putting up the superchargers ), the supercharger electricity is up to you when you recharge, but the heavy cost ( wich could really be like 5.000$/car ) is linked to this.

And since the main reason i'm buying a tesla is for the supercharger alone ( else i would go gas, since i need to do long trip every months and i can't afford to keep a car "just for the long trip" ) i would say that ubundling this would be a real bad thing.

 

[KarenRei]

Probably LOT LOT less ( stripping down all of it i means.. maybe 2.000? probably less, a camera/radar doesn't cost that much), and you need camera/radar etc for the satefy issue, so you need the gpu etc and at least 1/3 of the cameras, considering that the "optional" part is only a bouch of 3$ camera and some wires.. i would say that you can keep for yourself what? 500$ at max?

Agreed. The very reason Tesla didn't go with lidar is because - unlike cameras, ultrasonic sensors and a small radar, lidar actually is expensive. The cameras are basically webcams, and they're buying them in huge bulk. Ultrasonic sensors are extremely simple and becoming super common. And radar has become so common in cars now that its price has gone well down, and there's only one in the vehicle. And you need the computational hardware either way.

The quote is "linked...', not bundled. It appears to me that you may have jumped the gun, as to exactly what Elon meant.

"Linked" is pretty much a synonym for "bundled", especially since we're talking about a car that's so focused on bundling that it combines options as disparate as power seating, stereo upgrades, a winter package, and a glass roof all into a single package.

That said, I would love to know more details. Does it camber the wheels like on S/X? (hope not). Is it focused on striking a balance between raising and lowering it over the base M3 (like the S/X), so that the peak height is only a couple centimeters over what you'd get with a base coil suspension - or is most/all of the air suspension travel above the baseline, adding a lot more clearance when set to max? (I'd prefer the latter)

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm already miffed that the car and every Tesla comes with the autopilot hardware installed, whether you want it or not. How much does the autopilot hardware add to the production cost of the car?...Maybe $6,000-$10,000?? I've said it before in other posts, Tesla needs to put the autopilot hardware in a Tesla when the customer requests autopilot, and not before. How many people would like to pay maybe a $25,000 Model 3 starting price because Tesla didn't add all the useless autopilot hardware to the car that people don't want? There are lots of cars on the street with auto-braking and they don't have autopilot.

Nope, can't happen. Why? Because that AP hardware is being used for other things that are active on every car, some of which are required by law. AP safety Features like AEB, FCW, SCW, etc.

Sure they could probably leave some of the cameras off and save a few bucks, maybe even put a slower AP ECU in cars where they don't purchase EAP. But I don't think it would save hardly any money. (And then EAP would have to cost even more to cover the new hardware and after purchase installation.)

 

[R.S]

What if Elon does not tell folks about the future options and November buyers get mad because of known January options that weren't presented?

I am more and more pleased, that my delivery will be "late 2018". I think Tesla's approach is ok, as long as only the employees get their cars, but I don't think it's the best choice to not tell people, what they are missing by not waiting.

Aren't they always complaining that there are so many reservation holders? I am pretty sure you can find enough, that don't care about smart air or other so far secret options. But if they are already planned to be released, why not just tell us reservation holders?

I get that Tesla can't tell us about things like upcoming battery upgrades on the S. But being a bit more transparent on the 3 really shouldn't hurt. And I understand the Osborne effect and I get the "anti-selling" argument, but uncertainty is actually the worst thing for consumers. I for one am thinking about replacing my Model S with a performance Model 3, instead of another S. And my decision depends on what the performance 3 will be and what it will cost. But I wouldn't buy a S anyways until I know what the performance 3 can do, so why keep it a secret? The same goes for smart air suspension, or other options that might trickle in eventually.

Just tell us how much things will cost and a rough timeframe when they will be available.

 

[diplomat33]

I've said it before in other posts, Tesla needs to put the autopilot hardware in a Tesla when the customer requests autopilot, and not before.

I get that you would like a cheaper car and you personally don't care for AP. But this is a terrible idea!

First, it would complicate production a lot because you are talking about adding hardware that is integrated into the car like radar and cameras only for some vehicles and not others. What do you do for standard emergency features like automatic braking which requires front radar? So, you would put front radar in every car but not cameras or ultrasonics? What about rear view camera which is pretty standard? So now, we are talking putting some radar and a rear camera in every car but leaving out the rest of the cameras in other cars? Too complicated.

Second, your idea would completely eliminate the option of getting autopilot after delivery. What if the customer changes their mind later? Do you really think that the customer is going to take their car into a service center and Tesla will retrofit the AP hardware into the car? Of course not! So, if the customer wants AP later, they would have to buy a new car.

Tesla's solution of making AP hardware standard in every car and making AP a software upgrade is ingenious. It standardizes production, gives every car the AP capability and allows customers to get AP anytime after delivery without the need for a visit to a service center.

 

[KarenRei]

You know what (back to air suspension)... actually, I've conditionally changed my mind. I'd like the camber to adjust with ride height, if someone would make tires designed for that.

Think about how amazing that would be: you could have harder, hard-wearing, smoother inside edges of the tires (super LRR), while super soft, sticky exterior edges to the tire (super high traction). So when you're going fast on a good road and the car automatically drops down to reduce drag, with the wheels cambered out, not only does the inside rim not wear out as fast, but your rolling drag (a third or so of your total drag at highway speeds) declines. If traction control ever detects any slip, air suspension rises back up onto stickier rubber. In extreme slip conditions, air suspension jacks the camber all the way up to riding on the opposite edges of the tires, giving you superb traction (at the cost of higher rolling resistance and wear), until better conditions resume.

In short, depending on the ride height / camber position, your vehicle could pick for you (within your customization constraints / overrides) the perfect balance of wear, traction, and rolling resistance. Wouldn't that be nifty?

 

[Piccolo]

Does anyone know of an after-market Air Suspension for the Model 3. We live in Oakland, CA with terrible city streets. Our 2014 Model S85 with Air Suspension is much needed. We love our 2-week old M3, but my back is taking a beating without the air suspension. I don't think (yet?) available at Evannex or T-Sportline. Suggestions welcome.