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Smart meter "not commissioned"

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Hi guys

Just wondering if anyone has experienced this before? We moved into a new build at the start of the year and it already had SMETS2 smart meters fitted and our original supplier was British Gas, we were only with them for a few weeks before switching and recently I've switched to Octopus. No supplier so far as been able to receive our smart meter readings but no one has been able to tell us why, I didn't really think too much of it at the time. After hassling Octopus for the last few weeks, waiting to switch onto Go, they told me the electricity meter hasn't been commissioned so it won't communicate with them properly.

I'm not sure what the solution to this is, Octopus told me they'd update me when they know more (which is what they've been saying for weeks). I don't know who fits the meters in new properties but is it worth me getting onto the developer? Or the original supplier? Or waiting for Octopus to sort it?

Thanks!
 
Your issue doesn't sound exaclty the same as mine, but it's similar enough to possibly be linked.

I too moved into a new build at the start of the year and the incumbent was BG. I switched to Octopus in April and have had nothing but problems trying to get them to take readings from my meters. Apparently the gas is too far from the electric to ever function as a smart meter, but they've been out twice for the electric and each time said it's working before disappearing and me then having to chase, only to be told it isn't working. I get told the same, that they'll update me, but they never do and I hear nothing unless I contact them. The latest as of last week is that they asked for a photograph of my meter, despite having been out twice to see it for themselves. Do you know if yours has ever successfulyl transmitted data, as they claim mine has?

IfI get any closer to a resolution from them then I'll let you know.
 
I've had 5 meters that won't commission. I've given up on smets2. The last engineer said he couldn't understand why they kept installing meters as we were in a no signal area...

The last meter has now failed completely, so it isn't even measuring usage..
 
Your issue doesn't sound exaclty the same as mine, but it's similar enough to possibly be linked.

I too moved into a new build at the start of the year and the incumbent was BG. I switched to Octopus in April and have had nothing but problems trying to get them to take readings from my meters. Apparently the gas is too far from the electric to ever function as a smart meter, but they've been out twice for the electric and each time said it's working before disappearing and me then having to chase, only to be told it isn't working. I get told the same, that they'll update me, but they never do and I hear nothing unless I contact them. The latest as of last week is that they asked for a photograph of my meter, despite having been out twice to see it for themselves. Do you know if yours has ever successfulyl transmitted data, as they claim mine has?

IfI get any closer to a resolution from them then I'll let you know.

Interesting, it does sound like it might be a similar issue. My gas and electric meters are both smart but I only switched my electric to Octopus - I've had to supply manual meter readings for all 3 of my suppliers so far and at one point I was struggling to manually submit them as it was saying I have smart meters. But as far as I know, neither of my meters have ever sent readings.
I don't know if it makes any difference but the 3G signal in this area is terrible on all phones in the house across 3 different networks (EE, O2 and Three) and I vaguely recall reading about them communicating via 3G on O2 but I don't know the specifics.
 
I had Octopus smart meters fitted to my house in Hayes on 1st October but when finished, the installer said "there's a 'back-end' problem" and he couldn't commission the meters. I chased Octopus who finally offered a commissioning visit for the 11th November - assuming Covid lockdown doesn't spoil that.

My meters are quite low down (under the stairs) and I can't get down low enough to read the new gas meter myself.
 
The meters communicate to a central server and your supplier gets the data from there. The installer is supposed to "commission" the meter so that it talks to the servers over the mobile networks or a dedicated WAN.
It may be the signal in your area is no good or it just needs someone to finish the commissioning process
 
Octopus have an article on what’s involved with getting a reading from smart meter to themselves, it seems ludicrously complicated for what it is.

Also seems daft, to me anyway, that one can do many data sensitive transactions over one’s own WiFi network but hell will probably freeze over before a smart meter is allowed to connect to it to solve a connection issue.

Solving smart meter issues at Octopus Energy
 
Octopus have an article on what’s involved with getting a reading from smart meter to themselves, it seems ludicrously complicated for what it is.

Also seems daft, to me anyway, that one can do many data sensitive transactions over one’s own WiFi network but hell will probably freeze over before a smart meter is allowed to connect to it to solve a connection issue.

Solving smart meter issues at Octopus Energy
The whole system was designed by a committee of morons who thought that the more different systems involved the better.
Electricity retailers are not even allowed to specify the make if meter installed, this is dictated by the installation contractors, yet another layer of complexity.
I sometimes dispar over the way strategic IT systems and processes are specified by people with no understanding of the complexity.
 
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Also seems daft, to me anyway, that one can do many data sensitive transactions over one’s own WiFi network but hell will probably freeze over before a smart meter is allowed to connect to it to solve a connection issue.

Back when the spec was being set for smart meters and connectivity, WiFi was considered, and ruled out, for several reasons. The major one was that homeowners can, and do, change their WiFi passwords, either because they are security conscious so include changing these at the same time as they change all other passwords, or because they change their provider and get a new router. There were also issues with using WiFi in flats and apartments, where meters are often located some distance away from the flat/apartment it serves, often in a service room where all the incoming services for the building come in. WiFi range is massively lower than WAN connectivity range, in part due to the difference in frequency, in part due to the difference in permitted power.

The solution that was agreed was that smart meters should have a mesh capability, so that they can interconnect with each other, with meters in houses where there's no signal communicating with a neighbour's meter, and so on, until a meter is reached that can connect to the WAN.

Smart meters can use the 2.4 GHz WiFi frequency band to communicate with the indoor display, using Zigbee. They can also communicate with the indoor unit using 868 MHz in some cases, where the meter is more than about 15m from the indoor display.

One snag is that the specification for the WAN provider's coverage assumes that meters will be located where, if fitted with the highest gain Comms Hub antenna, they will be able to receive a mobile connection from either the Arquiva or Telefonica network. In practice, meters may well be located where there is a signal at the premises that meets the spec, but where the signal at the meter location is close to non-existent. This means that there may well be a situation where Arquiva and Telefonica have met their contractual requirements to provide coverage, but not the practical requirement of getting all meters to connect.

There's a bit of a chicken and egg situation too, where some installers are saying they cannot install a meter as there is no signal, and in turn that means that there may not be enough smart meters rolled out to allow the alternative mesh connection option to work. The latter relies on there being a chain of smart meters in no signal areas, that can connect reliably with each other, and relay data on through any smart meter they connect to that can get a proper WAN connection.
 
I'm in a poor mobile signal area so was concerned that once fitted the meter wouldn't connect, even more so as it's in the middle of the house under the stairs, but touch wood it hasn't had any issues over the few months it has been up and running now. I know my immediate neighbours don't have smart meters, so not sure how well the mesh idea would work here had it possibly been needed.

I can see the WiFi password issue but it's not insurmountable where there are no other issues such as distance from router. If not WiFi though, how about a wired ethernet connection direct to the router? Doesn't necessarily have to be used, just available as an option.

There just seems to be so many issues with WAN connection that one hears about, here and in other places.
 
I have had a Smets2 electricity meter since late last year installed by Ecotricity just before I left them for Octopus. I don't think Ecotricity ever got it working.
I have been on their Go tarrif since February but never had an electricity bill. My gas meter isn't smart and read manually.
You can't read the electricity meter as it only displays a total. It has been officially read once a couple of months ago.

My credit is huge with Octopus hence why they are not worried about billing me despite many Email requests to sort it.

My worry is that although I am careful to load up washing machines, dish washers and charge two cars every night to start at 0:30am, how will they know how much to charge me when they get their act together and talk to my meter?
 
I have had a Smets2 electricity meter since late last year installed by Ecotricity just before I left them for Octopus. I don't think Ecotricity ever got it working.
I have been on their Go tarrif since February but never had an electricity bill. My gas meter isn't smart and read manually.

My credit is huge with Octopus hence why they are not worried about billing me despite many Email requests to sort it.

My worry is that although I am careful to load up washing machines, dish washers and charge two cars every night to start at 0:30am, how will they know how much to charge me when they get their act together and talk to my meter?
I think the meter itself can store about a years worth of readings, normally they won't switch you to go until your meter is sending reading every 30mins, so I assume that would be the case? They probably have the readings, just haven't generated a bill, which seems common with octopus for some reason, normally just emailing them, and they generate a bill for you. If you have no luck email Greg to get it escalated.
 
Back when the spec was being set for smart meters and connectivity, WiFi was considered, and ruled out, for several reasons. The major one was that homeowners can, and do, change their WiFi passwords, either because they are security conscious so include changing these at the same time as they change all other passwords, or because they change their provider and get a new router. There were also issues with using WiFi in flats and apartments, where meters are often located some distance away from the flat/apartment it serves, often in a service room where all the incoming services for the building come in. WiFi range is massively lower than WAN connectivity range, in part due to the difference in frequency, in part due to the difference in permitted power.

The solution that was agreed was that smart meters should have a mesh capability, so that they can interconnect with each other, with meters in houses where there's no signal communicating with a neighbour's meter, and so on, until a meter is reached that can connect to the WAN.

Smart meters can use the 2.4 GHz WiFi frequency band to communicate with the indoor display, using Zigbee. They can also communicate with the indoor unit using 868 MHz in some cases, where the meter is more than about 15m from the indoor display.

One snag is that the specification for the WAN provider's coverage assumes that meters will be located where, if fitted with the highest gain Comms Hub antenna, they will be able to receive a mobile connection from either the Arquiva or Telefonica network. In practice, meters may well be located where there is a signal at the premises that meets the spec, but where the signal at the meter location is close to non-existent. This means that there may well be a situation where Arquiva and Telefonica have met their contractual requirements to provide coverage, but not the practical requirement of getting all meters to connect.

There's a bit of a chicken and egg situation too, where some installers are saying they cannot install a meter as there is no signal, and in turn that means that there may not be enough smart meters rolled out to allow the alternative mesh connection option to work. The latter relies on there being a chain of smart meters in no signal areas, that can connect reliably with each other, and relay data on through any smart meter they connect to that can get a proper WAN connection.

Surely they could ahve got around the password isseu with a powerline connector cabled from the router and directly read by the meter - no need for a password since efectively a direct link? or would it cause problems with neighbouring systems on the same phase?
I suffer from 'ruralism' too
 
Arqiva isn't mobile, a bespoke network on 412Mhz. That's why the northern rollout is such a cl*sterf*ck - everyone has to wait for them to build it out rather than using mobile networks.

Mesh will never work, houses have thick walls between them.. as a last resort maybe but I hope they're not expecting it to be reliable.

(There's actually a good technical definition in google cache of how this all works but it's been wiped from the main sites for some reason):

"Smart gas and electric meters within premises will connect to Arqiva’s network by
means of the Communications Hub, which will be installed separately from the Smart
Meter unit. The system uses Long Range Radio in the UHF band at 412-414 MHz for
the uplink and 422-424 MHz for the downlink, using licensed spectrum. The network
equipment is provided by a US company, Sensus and operates over a proprietary
radio protocol, which has been customised for utilities messaging services. This
solution is ideal for covering the varied terrain and building types of the UK, and is in
wide deployment in the US."

"The typical operation of the Smart Metering system consists of meters sending
readings to their Communications Hub by a pre-set schedule e.g. every hour or every
four hours, etc. (Communications between the meter and the Communication Hub
are typically in the 2.4 GHz or 870 MHz bands). Also on a pre-arranged schedule, the
base station sends a message to each Communications Hub (at 424MHz) to request
readings. The Communications Hub then responds (at 414MHz) with its stored
readings. Each message is typically of the order of several hundred bytes sent for
durations of less than half a second"
 
Surely they could ahve got around the password isseu with a powerline connector cabled from the router and directly read by the meter - no need for a password since efectively a direct link? or would it cause problems with neighbouring systems on the same phase?
I suffer from 'ruralism' too

There's lots of inventive ways that someone could choose to use now, but perhaps worth remembering that smart meters are pretty ancient, and the spec was set in the early 2000's. In some ways, by the time they are rolled out fully there won't be a need for them any more, as they came about as fix for a grid stability problem that was foreseen decades ago, largely caused by the predicted switch away from high inertia, predictable forms of electricity generation to low inertia, relatively unpredictable, renewable generation.

Back then, all the predictions indicated that the grid could have a significant frequency stability problem, as a consequence of renewable generation not being sufficiently controllable to allow for normal variations in demand. In the worst case, it was predicted that we could get outages so severe, due to the need to close generators to protect them when the frequency dips too low, that the grid might have to black start. This has never truly happened in the UK, closest we ever got was the grid division that occurred during the 1987 storm, that split the grid into two, as major disconnects operated to protect the network. It took a lot of work to resync the two halves of the grid, in order to allow the disconnects to be reset, and was a bit of a wake up call as to just how challenging a black start might be.

Lots of lessons were learned, and one of them was that there was a need for more load shedding capability, the second being that there was a need to be able to very accurately control loads during any resynchronisation process. Industrial/commercial supplies already have set load shedding, priority tariff, arrangements, so that the DNOs can turn off supplies to the lowest priority customers if there is a frequency dip event, turning off more customers going up the priority list if need be, in order to match demand to available generation/distribution capacity. It was decided that there needed to be a way to turn off domestic consumers as well, in order to give even greater load shedding capacity, but more importantly, to allow loads to be switched back in very gradually, during a black start recovery.

This is where smart meters came in, as they were originally designed just as a way to be able to selectively turn off and on loads remotely. If there was a serious frequency dip event, then the DNOs could load shed by turning off both low priority industrial/commercial consumers, and also domestic consumers as well. The idea was that this would give them a greater range of control in an emergency, and so help prevent the sort of cascade failure that could otherwise happen (and which nearly happened in August 2019 with the Hornsea/Little Barford incident).

As the spec for smart metering matured, there was a realisation that convincing consumers to have a remotely controlled power disconnect device fitted might be an uphill struggle, but that offering the ability to have access to variable TOU tariffs might be seen as attractive. As a consequence, smart meters are "sold" on this basis, and the fact that they all include an internal contactor to remotely disconnect supplies isn't widely advertised. There was also a hope that, by encouraging widespread use of TOU tariffs, the risk of there being a major low frequency event would be reduced, by reducing peak demand.

Since then, things have been changing rapidly, though. The idea of large scale battery storage, for example, that could behave much like spinning reserve, and add a lot of inertia (and hence frequency stability) to the grid wasn't even dreamed of. Nor was the fact that such battery storage could be co-located with wind and solar generation, such that it can reduce some of the supply variability. If I had to make a prediction, then I'd suggest that smart meters won't be needed, and won't offer any significant consumer benefit, in around 10 years time. By that time I suspect the degree of peak to off-peak variability we have at the moment will be a thing of the past, so there won't be any incentive for domestic consumers to benefit by shifting demand.
 
I had my meters installed in May. The electric one is working fine but the gas meter has never sent readings to Octopus so I have to do a manual reading. I've emailed them several times about it but still no fix.

I'm in the same position - had smart gas and electric meters installed by Octopus last December but while the electric one eventually started working several months after being installed, the gas meter has never sent automatic readings.

After almost a year of chasing and being fobbed off (and some credit being applied to my account due to their terrible customer service) I've been told that there's something wrong with the gas meter which they cannot fix, so they are apparently sending someone round to replace it on Friday.

I am not holding my breath that is going to work, but at least they're doing something.

Assuming they turn up due to lockdown...