Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Snippiness 2.0

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry but bargaining is part of life and there are situations where win / win outcomes are found that way. the price of a product is the price that the market is willing to pay for, not what the seller thinks it is.
True. But I think the “awful behavior” comment had to do with the tone of some replies. Several folks have tried to inform the OP that there’s not much of a value proposition in her offer, and done so with courtesy. I hope my earlier post is in that category. Others have taken a more ad hominem tone, and I believe that was the basis of the objection.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: kinito
My research was done a few years ago (I bought a P3d instead) so I don't have the numbers committed to memory. However, there are MANY posts on this site if you search "P90D battery" that will list the model numbers and corresponding versions.
While I don't disagree there is a difference between versions of the 90kwh battery I do think that those differences have been largely blown out of proportion. I don't think the differences within the versions of 90kwh are that drastic in use. Also, keep in mind that said battery pack has an 8-year warranty anyway so even if you have a v1 and it craps out you'll get whatever the newest version is most likely anyway. I'm not saying to ignore this data I would say to be mindful of how much weight you assign when considering which car to buy. After all, every car can be a good deal at the right price.
 
Thread reopened. But keep things under control. No more personal attacks. No more name calling. Up to now there have been no formal warnings issued, but I've snipped a bunch of posts. If it gets out of control again, we will become more strict, warnings will be formal and temporary bans and moderation will be implemented.
 
He's the gift that keeps on giving!
2006 was also the year that An Inconvenient Truth came out. Coincidence or not??? o_Oo_Oo_O
Based on the many predictions from that year, we aren't supposed to be here. Consider it a miracle that we've made it to Christmas of 2019! Kids still see snow too. I was told in 2006 that we'd have to tell them old war stories about how we used to make a snowman. The childhood of my kids is alive and well!
 
Lol, I'm sure there will be a study soon showing that the 2006 "consensus" was that we would still be having record snows in 2019. ;)

Oh absolutely! The IPCC changed their snow theories to say they predicted MORE snow. When we had a few mild winters around an "inconvenient truth," the consensus was mild winters were here to stay! When heavy winters came back they completely changed their minds. You can't make it up.
As I've been told by my Chicken Little friends, "No matter what the weather is, it's due to global warming!"
 
Yes....search the posts, it's been quantified MANY times. I'm not here to be your Google.

So... no is the answer. Interesting. You came it here and made a blanket statement that the P90D is faster with absolutely no ability to back that statement up with facts so we can actually see how much faster it is? Nice.

I, on the other hand, live in reality. I would like to quantify the difference of these two vehicles on paper so I can determine the actual difference since it's my buying dollar. How much better is something that carries a price tag difference of several thousand dollars? That seems like a legitimate question to anyone who's applying logic to their buying decision.

What I've found is that the difference between these two vehicles is negligible at best. In fact, several trustworthy sources have them doing 0-60 at exactly the same clip: 3.1 seconds. Even though I've assigned exact numbers to my post (unlike you) I will go one step further and back that data up with a source: ever heard of wiki? (scroll down to the "specifications" section for a nice color-coded chart that you shouldn't struggle too much with)

So, if an older P85D and a newer P90D do 0-60 in exactly the same time, what makes you think there's such a drastic difference between different versions with the P90D lineup? Some people on here act like a v3 P90D is worth $94k and they wouldn't take a v1 P90D if you gave it to them. If you're in the market to buy and you assign a different value to them I just don't see the real value between the versions to be anywhere near what some here make it sound like. If the v1 battery is truly that bad it's already been replaced for free with the newer version or will be shortly anyway so who cares?

The bottom line is some people on this forum put WAY too much weight in the differences between v1, v2 and v3 of the 90kwh battery pack. The differences in the real world aren't even something the driver would notice.
 
I own two P90D's (MS w/ V1 battery and a MX w/ V2 battery), both of which I purchased before I joined TMC and read through the pages of threads that talk about how early batteries were less powerful and more susceptible to degradation. While I cannot argue that either (or both) of these concerns may have some truth in the macro, I can tell you that neither of my cars have abnormal degradation and both are wickedly fast.

Beautiful car. GLWS.
 
So... no is the answer. Interesting. You came it here and made a blanket statement that the P90D is faster with absolutely no ability to back that statement up with facts so we can actually see how much faster it is? Nice.

I, on the other hand, live in reality. I would like to quantify the difference of these two vehicles on paper so I can determine the actual difference since it's my buying dollar. How much better is something that carries a price tag difference of several thousand dollars? That seems like a legitimate question to anyone who's applying logic to their buying decision.

What I've found is that the difference between these two vehicles is negligible at best. In fact, several trustworthy sources have them doing 0-60 at exactly the same clip: 3.1 seconds. Even though I've assigned exact numbers to my post (unlike you) I will go one step further and back that data up with a source: ever heard of wiki? (scroll down to the "specifications" section for a nice color-coded chart that you shouldn't struggle too much with)

So, if an older P85D and a newer P90D do 0-60 in exactly the same time, what makes you think there's such a drastic difference between different versions with the P90D lineup? Some people on here act like a v3 P90D is worth $94k and they wouldn't take a v1 P90D if you gave it to them. If you're in the market to buy and you assign a different value to them I just don't see the real value between the versions to be anywhere near what some here make it sound like. If the v1 battery is truly that bad it's already been replaced for free with the newer version or will be shortly anyway so who cares?

The bottom line is some people on this forum put WAY too much weight in the differences between v1, v2 and v3 of the 90kwh battery pack. The differences in the real world aren't even something the driver would notice.
The answer is not "no" just because you're either to lazy or unable to search the forums.

There is a TON of data and graphs that support what I said. Your comment is actually idiotic. Do some basic research.
 
This is what DATA looks like, Buddy....took me 10 seconds to do what you are unable to do.
Screenshot_20191220-100113_Chrome.jpg
 
That's great and all but what do "max power" numbers matter if the end result of 0-60 in 3.1 is exactly the same?

Reminds me of a saying: What do a 800hp Supra and a 1,200hp Supra have in common? A 10-second quarter mile. In real world use the extra power means very little when you're already at the limits of what the traction can do. So, again, you're trying to argue that the v3 90kwh battery is SO much better and I'm saying that even on paper the difference to most probably wouldn't justify the price difference.

Besides, even if you were right and the v3 P90D was SO much faster than the v1 P90D and the owner treated every single red light like a race to 60mph every single day of ownership... most wouldn't be able to actually feel a difference based on the difference in numbers we're talking about. At that point you're literally arguing over hundredths of a second as if they're some life changing number. They're not.

Also, I'm not your "buddy" because I wouldn't befriend someone who fires personal attacks when someone challenges their baseless statements with their own facts that are based on reality and not some imaginary number production graphs that actually mean nothing in day to day use.
 
That's great and all but what do "max power" numbers matter if the end result of 0-60 in 3.1 is exactly the same?

Reminds me of a saying: What do a 800hp Supra and a 1,200hp Supra have in common? A 10-second quarter mile. In real world use the extra power means very little when you're already at the limits of what the traction can do. So, again, you're trying to argue that the v3 90kwh battery is SO much better and I'm saying that even on paper the difference to most probably wouldn't justify the price difference.

Besides, even if you were right and the v3 P90D was SO much faster than the v1 P90D and the owner treated every single red light like a race to 60mph every single day of ownership... most wouldn't be able to actually feel a difference based on the difference in numbers we're talking about. At that point you're literally arguing over hundredths of a second as if they're some life changing number. They're not.

Also, I'm not your "buddy" because I wouldn't befriend someone who fires personal attacks when someone challenges their baseless statements with their own facts that are based on reality and not some imaginary number production graphs that actually mean nothing in day to day use.
Excuses excuses, Pal. You got owned.
 
Ok... so what's the number? You've provided ZERO sources. The FACTS sure seem to indicate ~80% is from fools fuel.

The first issue is that you continue to shift the goal posts. You started out talking about driving an EV and installing solar on your roof. Then you added your friends' roofs. Now you seem to have expanded your claim to agriculture and industry. Why don't you just say *all carbon sources* and the discussion will be over.

Nothing in this pie chart indicates the source of the carbon, just the "sector" it is coming from. Do some reading and stop focusing on pie. With the holidays here I don't want to put on any more calories. This isn't a fourth grade schoolyard argument. If you want to learn, learn. I'm not going to spoon feed you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhrivnak
The first issue is that you continue to shift the goal posts. You started out talking about driving an EV and installing solar on your roof. Then you added your friends' roofs. Now you seem to have expanded your claim to agriculture and industry. Why don't you just say *all carbon sources* and the discussion will be over.

Nothing in this pie chart indicates the source of the carbon, just the "sector" it is coming from. Do some reading and stop focusing on pie. With the holidays here I don't want to put on any more calories. This isn't a fourth grade schoolyard argument. If you want to learn, learn. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

LOL! Where else would it be coming from? Especially with electricity and trasporation.... is there a source of carbon emissions in either sector that ISN'T from fools fuel????

If you're opposed to 'spoon feeding' then stop feeding BS. The fact is that ~80% of carbon emissions comes from fools fuel. There is no evidence to the contrary.... I've looked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhrivnak
LOL! Where else would it be coming from? Especially with electricity and trasporation.... is there a source of carbon emissions in either sector that ISN'T from fools fuel????

If you're opposed to 'spoon feeding' then stop feeding BS. The fact is that ~80% of carbon emissions comes from fools fuel. There is no evidence to the contrary.... I've looked.

I've never said anything to the contrary. I've been disputing that your efforts to install solar on your roof and drive EVs are the solution.

In the manufacture of Portland cement over half the carbon released is from the chemical reaction producing the "clinker" that constitutes most of the cement. Fuel is less than half. The chemical reaction of making Portland cement constitutes up to 4% of all carbon emissions world wide... that one industrial process... not including the fuel used.

Like I said, you need to stop focusing on pretty pie charts and do some digging to get real facts. Or you can believe in your alternative facts.

Driving an EV does very little to reduce the release of carbon in any significant way. It's only the beginning of a start to reducing the increase. So stop feeling so smug and learn something about how really bad the problem is and how hard it will be to deal with it.

I'm retired. So I won't see any of the really bad stuff. But there are people alive today who will see the impacts of sea level rise and climate change. They are the ones who will be forced to actually do something effective about it. Kinda like social security. lol
 
I guarantee that by adding solar and driving EV will get us to a cleaner future FAR FASTER than continued reliance on fossil fuels and driving gas cars.

In what way "cleaner" when it won't even reduce the emissions? It may reduce the rate of rise, but not enough to counter the annual increase. So not only will we be adding to the carbon in the air, we will still be adding to it at a faster rate! The faster part won't be as large as it could have been otherwise.

That's what people have a hard time thinking about is just how enormous the problem is and how widespread the sources are.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: SageBrush
Status
Not open for further replies.