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snippiness

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by DrTaras, Mar 3, 2012.

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  1. DrTaras

    DrTaras R254->R725->S1364-->X769

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    #1 DrTaras, Mar 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2012
    [Moderator's note: In trying to clear some off topic nonsense from some threads, this particular bout of bickering got carted off here. Please be polite folks! :smile:]


    I don't know either of you and have respected posts that both of you have shared. AnOutsider has been here almost 3 years & 2,636 posts; I hardly find that trolling.
    You can get your factual opinion out without taking personal pot shots. Please knock it off! :cursing:
     

  2. thanks for your opinion, duly noted....I will be sure to ask you for permission before I post anything since you are the indisputable judge of character on this board.
     
  3. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Wow. How did you get to that response? Ian's post didn't say anything of the kind.
     
  4. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    A lot of us regulars (myself included) seem to be extra snippy and snarky lately. Maybe we're all antsy waiting for something significant to happen at Tesla (crash tests, design studio, something, anything)?
     
  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Ahahah. Isn't that the truth!
     
  6. i don't know who that guy is but the mod had handled it...Not sure why he is "vouching" for a guy he supposedly "doesn't know" ....I don't understand what Dr Taras has to do with postings from a few days ago or why he was interjecting? Very odd.
     
  7. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I thought the main issue was people wanted a discount for taking the lower option? Personally, I'm not fussed. I know if I order a "package" from a normal automaker, usually I can't remove just one thing, but if I could (I'm thinking back to when I didn't want a certain connector for Audi's AMI), I didn't get a discount for taking the lesser option. It's a PACKAGE after all.
     
  8. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #8 ckessel, Mar 27, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
    It's the same thing. The rims have a cost and people simple want to pay for what they're actually getting. As it stands now, Tesla has two pricing models for wheels. One for the base model and one for the Perf model (and Sig). The dual pricing model is purely a Tesla construct since the cost of the wheels is independent of the type of car that's riding on them.

    It's nice you'd be happy to let Tesla pocket the difference if you chose a less expensive item, but many of us aren't of that opinion.

    Edit: And no one is asking Tesla to break up a package or make a non-standard choice. Tire choice is already something Tesla allows. This is purely about their dual pricing model.
     
  9. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Come on, don't start going down that route. Keeping it CONSTRUCTIVE... Can you post a parallel example of where that would be different with another manufacturer? As I said, I'm not bothered by it because I don't see out of the ordinary. I've only bought from a few manufacturers in my time, so perhaps it's different elsewhere.

    *edit* just went to configure an R8 spyder. One as a 4.2 the other as a 5.2 (gets more expensive wheels standard). If I choose to go with the wheel that is standard on the 4.2 R8, I do NOT get a discount.
     
  10. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    I'm not going to go research other manufacturers. The point in this thread has been clear: 1) people want to pay for the wheels they're getting, and 2) the fact this thread exists shows Tesla isn't meeting a customer need/expectation.
     
  11. onlinespending

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    well, ckessel makes a good point of there being two different pricing models. Hence my statement about there not being consistent pricing across the board. This isn't simply someone wanting to pick parts of a package and expecting a lower cost. It's not as if someone's saying "I just want the NAV part of the tech package and don't want to pay for Xenon headlamps!". Tough, because the pieces of the tech package aren't offered a la carte. But the wheels are priced as individual upgrades for the base car, and the upgrade price is clearly shared for each option. But when you want the performance edition of the car, you're forced into paying the same price regardless of which wheels you choose. It'd be one thing if the only way to get the 21" wheels were as a part of the Performance package, and if that were the only option. Then you could see people swapping since you wouldn't even have that option to choose your wheels.

    And yes, I'm sure you'd feel slightly different if you had your heart set on the 19" wheels but wanted the performance edition. I doubt I'll get the Perf edition, but I can certainly sympathize with those that want the 19" wheels.
     
  12. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I think that's the norm. Even on other boards members do the same (meaning other car boards). Very often people will take the "free" expensive option as part of a package, then trade (plus cash) for the cheaper option if that's what they want.

    Here we go again with you being aggressive. I believe someone also called you a whiny baby (in less-positive words), what does that have to do with anything? If you're not going to be bothered to research similar situations, how can you get all worked about about Tesla being somehow wrong?

    Also, I posted numerous times that I'm willing to buy standard 21" from anyone who doesn't want them as I'd like to have a performance set and a silver set. I hope that allows me to continue to discuss things officer.
     
  13. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    I was being blunt. Why are you now getting personal? That's beyond blunt into rude.

    Someone once called you the resident contrarian. We were all having a really nice discussion until you stepped in with your CAPITAL letters to tell us all how unreasonable we are.
     
  14. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Seriously dude, WTF is your problem? I'm not harping on anyone that they were wrong, and before I came in? I had the second post in the thread (which you actually responded to). I'm 100% in support of wheel swapping, there's nothing contrary there. As far as getting personal, you don't think your post trying to dismiss my opinion as simply being contrarian since someone else said it isn't getting personal?

    I seriously don't get it, but I'm willing to just agree to disagree and walk away from this if all it's going to result in is this level of bickering.
     
  15. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    Uh huh, so what was your purpose here?

    The message is we should all be not fussed like you?
     
  16. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Precisely. So to reiterate post #3, if anyone plans to have a spare set of the 21" in silver (for whatever reason), please keep me in mind (local or not).
     
  17. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Please, people, can we just stay nice to each other here? I know we are al anxtious to receive our Model S, but keep it down a bit :)
     
  18. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    #18 bonnie, Mar 27, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
    Agree with widodh. People need to tone it down. EVERYONE. The potshots are annoying, juvenile, and not constructive.

    Let's all put on our big boy pants and move on.
     
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  19. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I think what triggered the negative tone was this:
    And, no, I'm not picking on this post... just evaluating.

    The way this is phrased it's an attack on Tesla decision-making. In subsequent posts, AnOutsider was making the point (I think) that it's apparently fairly standard for the auto industry. When he provided a directly comparable example, the tone of the response was interpreted as dismissive -- which made things worse.

    Does that make it a "good thing"? I don't know.
    Does that make Tesla "just like the other guys"? Perhaps.
    Does this decision imply Tesla doesn't have common sense? Definitely no.
     
  20. onlinespending

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    Not to derail this any further, but I too was just making an observation. It was not an attack on Tesla, but even if it were, it needn't be defended as if I had made a personal attack on anyone here (which I would never do). I still stand by my original assessment. I find it amusing that there's this whole need to swap wheels when it could have been avoided had the wheel pricing model been held consistent between the non-performance edition and the performance edition. They'd almost be better off only offering the 19" wheels for non-performance models and only the 21" wheels for the performance model. It'd be more restrictive, but at least it'd be consistent. And if people wanted to depart from the standard wheels for their respective edition, then they could swap. People would be swapping purely due to the fact that they can't get the option, not because of some arbitrage situation created by Tesla.

    AnOutsider claimed this is industry standard and then gave one example, for a car that is rather exotic to say the least, an R8. I can give two examples to the contrary. The BMW M3/M5 allows for upgrading to a performance wheel, and can be done so individually or as part of an additional package. You pay to upgrade, and aren't forced into the highest price wheel but don't get any relief if you go with lower-end wheels as with the Model S. Also the Mercedes AMG series offers 4 wheel options each priced differently. It's not as if they charge you for the most expensive one without a change in price if you were to one select of the lower-end ones.

    Ultimately Tesla had a decision to make. They could have very well allowed the option for variable priced wheels for the Performance edition, just as they do with the base model. Putting the wheels on is the last item of business off the assembly line and there's no logistical reason not to offer all options at variable cost. But they chose to do something that was clearly in their best interest and at the expense of the customer. They obviously have every right to do what they choose. And even if everyone else was doing it that way (which is not the case given the M3 and AMG examples), it doesn't mean Tesla would have to follow suit. They're breaking the mold on a lot of things when it comes to making cars. When Tesla makes a different, yet unpopular decision, such as the lack of storage in the interior, people defend them because they're being original. But when they do something apparently similar to industry trends, but also unpopular, such as the lack of variable pricing on the wheels for the performance edition, people defend them for being no different than anyone else. Can't have it both ways

    OK, continue with the swapping discussion :)
     
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