snow chains

[EcoHeliGuy]

Hmmm. Your comments as I understand them are not applicable to all situations. For instance, in the USA, in many areas studded tires are illegal so that option is off the table. Where I live, there is a drive I do where chain controls are used when the roads get bad in the mountains in the winter. Typically, when this occurs traffic is moving slowly, like 25 mph or less, give or take.

At that speed, my understanding is that even with a RWD car then front axle chains are helpful and desirable. At faster speeds, then the issues you brought up with front axle chains are a big deal, but in the conditions where chains are required, then it doesn't matter because you won't be going fast enough for these issues to arise. And I never use chains in any other situation. So if you never drive fast, then all around chains on all 4 tires is better at slow speeds. Correct me if I am wrong on this, remembering that chains in this situation are required (unless you have snow tires on all 4 wheels in a 4WD/AWD car) as the Tesla Model S does not have AWD (yet).

So the scenario is RWD, less than 25 mph, chains are required to travel the road. Minimum they must be on the rear axle. The debate is the front axle.

Cheers.

I agree with your points as I have no winter driving experience in the western states. I will add that while some places most likely do have bans on studded tires. My experience has been that the majority incorrectly believe they are illegal in there area.

May times co workers in different province here in Canada have stated studs are illegal, after I get them to show me the regulations, they realize that no where in Canada ( this was about 4 winters ago last time we checked) there was not a single provincial level year round ban. Only seasonally ie May to Sept ect.

I really suggest if you get packed snow or slick ice regularly, do yourself a favor and get stubs if allowed. Call your local tire shop.

 

[Doug_G]

Studs are banned year-round in southern Ontario. You can use the newer type of studded tires in northern Ontario.

 

[wycolo]

Finally figured out that Chad has 19in rims, but the Tesla page does not identify the tires. Need the data off the sidewall, Chad, please.

Roadster is a GOOD ice/snow/mud machine with the 35/65 (?) ratio. For past month have gone over high passes & forest roads thru just about every type of condition using block tread on the rear: Yoko "ice-guard" 225/45/r17/91T. Tesla Shop had them. Confident that the Roadster will get thru most winter situations. Will carry an aluminum shovel and may make up some strap-on chainlets for deep snow surprises. Roadster has 6in max clearance so once you begin plowing thru snow it becomes a whole new ball game.

ModelS NOT so good, by definition, with that 48/52 distribution. Rear tires having to push those 48% up front WHO PAY NO TAXES!! However the clearance can be jacked up & left there as you are creeping thru the tough spots. Boy, some low-power front wheel assist only available during full-jacked mode would be nice to have. When S arrives here I'll put on whatever snows I can locate and give a full high altitude workout.

STUDS: Cause more trouble than they are worth, unless you live in a true ice storm area. I would try today's siped ice tires first. Pedestrians *will* hear you approach if you are wearing studs!!
--

 

[ChadS]

Yeah, I have the 19's; Tesla does not recommend chains for the 21's. (Which also seems kind of odd; Jerry says chains are meant for summer tires, and that's when you need them the most, and supposedly the 21" tires have the same circumference as the 19's. But I imagine the 21's are wider).

Tesla's picture of the Z-chains shows them on the default 19" Eagles. But because my car came with 21" summer tires, I have the Pirelli Sottozero Serie II winter tires on my 19" rims. The sidewall numbers (obtained by yelling "enhance" at the picture 3 times): 245/45R19.

 

[jerry33]

and supposedly the 21" tires have the same circumference as the 19's. But I imagine the 21's are wider).

The tread width is wider on the 21", both 19" and 21" have the same nominal section width. (Section width is measured in the middle of the sidewall at the widest part but not including any raised lettering). I suspect a) the squarer profile can cause clearance problems with chains, and b) Tesla isn't keen on having people drive with 21" performance tires in winter conditions. I wouldn't be keen about that either. There may be other technical gotchas as well.

- - - Updated - - -

STUDS: Cause more trouble than they are worth, unless you live in a true ice storm area. I would try today's siped ice tires first. Pedestrians *will* hear you approach if you are wearing studs!!

+1. If you are not going to do ice racing, don't use studs. A winter driving course will do more for you than studs ever will.

 

[dadaleus]

Considering how easy it is to scratch the 21" wheels, I figured they don't recommend chains out of fear they'll mess up the rims. It's a rare day I drive in snow, but I have needed chains when going skiing in the local mountains a couple times. So I picked up chains to fit the 21 inchers and am packing bubble wrap and duct tape.

 

[shokunin]

Jason, how often do you go up to big bear in the winter? Half the time I go up they make me put up chains, even though the roads look fine (no ice). Driving up 30+ miles in chains on pavement is no fun. Are you getting a set of beater rims and winter tires or just going to use the Conti tires w/Chains??

 

[Ceilidh]

Nobody has updated this thread in a while so I thought I would give it a bump now that Winter is upon many of us.

Earlier in this thread we had some discussion about the Tesla-sold Z Chains not fitting the front wheels when they are 19" but apparently with snow tires on, which seemed odd to me as Tesla specified that the chains just need to meet class S requirements for all 4 wheels with the 19" configuration.

My question is:

Has anyone with the stock/OEM 19" all weather tires tried the Z chains on the front wheel? Do they fit? Any issues?

I am anxious to know if I need to return a pair of chains or not.

Cheers for any input and happy driving!

 

[ChadS]

Tesla engineering has not replied to my inquiry.

A local owner with the stock 19" tires hopes to stop by my house next week and try the chains...

 

[Ceilidh]

Fantastic.

Cheers

 

[ChadS]

Francis stopped by today with his car. He has 19" wheels (same as me) with the default Eagle tires (different than me; I have the winter Pirellis). He had also bought a pair of chains from a local auto store. They are not the same brand that Tesla sells, but they look pretty much identical and installed in very near the same way. He put his suspension up high, and we tried putting them on his front tires to see if they fit any better on the Eagles.

I do think the Eagles are a very tiny bit narrower than the Pirellis. I do think it is possible to drive the car with these low-profile snow chains on the front tires. But I sure wouldn't want to - they were clearly rubbing on his car as he inched his car slowly up and down my driveway; you can see that they touch, and I could hear them catching and releasing as he moved the car.

It could partly be a sizing issue; you will note that his non-Tesla chain connectors (I didn't notice a size on his box) are lower down that mine (the top of his are at the edge of the tire; mine are half over the tire, half over the wheel). There is a tiny bit more room up higher.

 

[Francis Lau]

I forgot to take pics of the chains on the car this afternoon at Chad's. I will do so tomorrow and post them tomorrow so folks can see the chains. Here is what I bought from a local store Les Schwab.

 

[Ceilidh]

Thanks so much for the pics and details. I am thinking that the configuration of the front wheels may totally prohibit chains.

Very important to know.

Cheers.

Edit
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so i did some research and had a hard time finding any chains that are lower profile than the z chains Tesla sells. The only no clearnce models i could find are the spikes-spiders and the Thule K summits, along with the various brands of snow socks.

So word to the wise: if you want chains on the front axle as well as the rear, either go for rear chains with front snow socks or be prepared to pay over $450 for your front axle chain set.

Cheers.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

From tire racks website as well as similar information from many more.

Tire chains should be installed on the drive wheels of the vehicle following the chain manufacturer’s instructions, To retain as much of the normal handling characteristics of 4WD/AWD vehicles as possible, tire chains should be installed on all four tires, requiring the purchase of two pairs of tire chains.

And

Use only SAE Class “S” chains. The restricted wheel well clearance in most of today's down-sized and front drive vehicles require tire chains to operate in an envelope that is no greater than 1.46-inches vertically and .59-inches laterally around the tire. These minimum clearances must be maintained between the tires and the vehicle’s fenders, suspension, struts, brake lines and braces.

 

[Ceilidh]

These z chains have just over 6 mm clearance. Class S is 15 mm or less. They are well within tire rack's recommendations and supposedly meet Tesla's, but in reality appear to not fit the front axle. Thus the discussion.

Cheers

 

[jerry33]

It's really hard to tell from the picture, but it appears a set of chains from Tesla is a set of two, not four. It's best to put on a set of four though.

 

[Ceilidh]

Chad, when you put the chains on the rear axle, was there plenty more clearance beyond that used by the z chains, or did they fit with little to no space left?

cheers

 

[ChadS]

I did the rears first and didn't poke around looking for problems, but I did not notice anything near the tire - there seemed to be plenty of clearance. The suspension near the front tire I noticed immediately; it makes it hard to get the chains on.

 

[montgom626]

I did the rears first and didn't poke around looking for problems, but I did not notice anything near the tire - there seemed to be plenty of clearance. The suspension near the front tire I noticed immediately; it makes it hard to get the chains on.

Did you post any pictures????

 

[ChadS]

I did post pics of the rears above, but only from the outside. (Pics of the inside above are of the fronts).