Snow Flake Icon

[nutts1]

Does anyone know where I can find any documentation for the snow flake icon on the battery status page? I’ve had my Model S for 3 winters and never seen it but have already seen it twice on my Model 3 in the first three weeks. I know it is cold temperature related but would like to know exactly what it is telling me and how I am limited when it is displayed.

 

[PoitNarf]

From what I’ve read the section of the battery status that is blue when the snowflake icon is present represents the estimated range lost due to the cold outside temperature.

See this article for some related info: Tesla releases new mobile app update with battery preconditioning feature and more

 

[Snow Drift]

Does anyone know where I can find any documentation for the snow flake icon on the battery status page? I’ve had my Model S for 3 winters and never seen it but have already seen it twice on my Model 3 in the first three weeks. I know it is cold temperature related but would like to know exactly what it is telling me and how I am limited when it is displayed.

The blue part of the battery is unavailable to use to drive due to the cold. Is your Model 3 kept outside vs the Model S? That may be why it is colder. Also, I believe the Model 3 and Model S/X have different battery heating mechanisms, which makes the S/X better for cold battery prevention.

 

[cpa]

I Supercharged our 3 a couple of weeks ago with the temps in the high 50s. The car had not been driven in a couple of days, and the garage temperature according to the dash display was about 49. The snowflake was apparent.

When I arrived at the Supercharger that was 4 miles away, the battery picture showed a small sliver that was blue. As the battery filled, the sliver got smaller until it disappeared. When I plugged in the battery was at 23%, and the blue sliver disappeared at ~28%.

 

[nutts1]

From what I’ve read the section of the battery status that is blue when the snowflake icon is present represents the estimated range lost due to the cold outside temperature.

See this article for some related info: Tesla releases new mobile app update with battery preconditioning feature and more

Thanks PoitNarf, the article answered my question.

@Snow Drift, the two cars sit in the garage side by side so I assume it is the Model S battery heater that is the difference. I also notice that the regen braking is limited for a much longer time on the Model 3.

 

[iluvmacs]

Same scenario here. Have never seen snowflake in my Model S all winter long when it's been parked in my garage. 4 days so far with Model 3, and I've seen it twice (and it's been quite a bit warmer these few days as compared to earlier this winter). They obviously have a different threshold and/or tolerance for cold.

 

[scottm]

The snowflake is also pretty strong indicator that your regen is limited.

Acceleration is limited.

And range is reduced because the BMS is going to need to heat the battery.

 

[more863-also]

Why is the 3 so weird about battery temp? My Leaf will do full regen even with a full freezing-cold soak, if the SoC is below 70%.

 

[Big Earl]

Why is the 3 so weird about battery temp? My Leaf will do full regen even with a full freezing-cold soak, if the SoC is below 70%.

The LEAF also has notoriously bad battery degradation. Lithium ion batteries cannot accept energy below freezing and what they can safely accept tapers down below 50F.

 

[more863-also]

The LEAF also has notoriously bad battery degradation. Lithium ion batteries cannot accept energy below freezing and what they can safely accept tapers down below 50F.

Yes, and that degradation is 100% correlated to *heat*, not cold. 2013/2017 Leaf veteran here. I've definitely regen'd below freezing in a Leaf after an outdoor, cold-soaking park.

 

[Big Earl]

Yes, and that degradation is 100% correlated to *heat*, not cold. 2013/2017 Leaf veteran here. I've definitely regen'd below freezing in a Leaf after an outdoor, cold-soaking park.

Charging when too cold will also cause irreversible battery damage. Just because it allows it doesn't mean there aren't negative consequences.

 

[more863-also]

Charging when too cold will also cause irreversible battery damage. Just because it allows it doesn't mean it's there aren't negative consequences.

That's true, there's just no actual evidence of that being correlated to battery degradation despite many, many eyes looking into the issue on mynissanleaf.com

And besides, why should I care when the battery warranty is the same on both cars?

 

[scottm]

What I've always questioned is, when the battery is cold to the point of regen being disabled completely (model S will warn you of this condition when heading out), why doesn't the car use deceleration energy dumped it into a resistive heater (preferably - one that heats the battery, duh) rather than doing nothing with that energy but force you to waste it as friction braking?

Resistive heaters are cheap. They should have a couple, maybe 10kWatts worth, immersed in the coolant stream circulating through the battery. Redirect the regen energy to that if the battery can't take any because it's cold.

I think the resistive heater in car is about 5kW and is only air-to-air for cabin heating. Heck, when the snowflake comes on that's a good signal that it's going to be cold in the car too... so dumping deceleration inertia to the in cabin heater would be a bonus and offset the battery drain being used to heat the cabin.

These measures would have improved the cold mileage efficiency of the car for city driving, quite a bit.

 

[rosenboss]

I had this icon pop up for the first time today while parked outside at work, only ~40 outside so not sure why. Hasn't gone away driving home and now I parked in garage to charge overnight. will it affect the charging capacity or speed? should I be concerned since it will get much colder in the coming CO months?

 

[M109Rider]

That's true, there's just no actual evidence of that being correlated to battery degradation despite many, many eyes looking into the issue on mynissanleaf.com

And besides, why should I care when the battery warranty is the same on both cars?

If you’re selling the car before the warranty ends, YOU don’t have to care I guess.
If you’re keeping the car, as many do, you should care.
Once out of warranty, that potential (unknown) cold weather degradation could cost you big time, when the warranty is up.
If not you, it may cost someone...

 

[more863-also]

If you’re selling the car before the warranty ends, YOU don’t have to care I guess.
If you’re keeping the car, as many do, you should care.
Once out of warranty, that potential (unknown) cold weather degradation could cost you big time, when the warranty is up.
If not you, it may cost someone...

Please post a single shred of evidence that cold damages Leaf batteries. Evidence, not feelings, in a Leaf. I get that it rustles your jimmies that a Leaf has better regen in the cold, but we're talking facts here.

The warranty goes until 2025 so I'm not too concerned and the next owner won't be either, likely the owner after that as well.

 

[Jaguar]

Back on topic, regarding the snowflake icon and battery pre-heating, the Model 3 manual says:

"Note: In cold weather, some of the stored energy in the Battery may not be available until the Battery warms up. When this happens, a portion of the Battery meter is blue and the driving distance value has a snowflake image next to it. If Model 3 is plugged in, you can heat your Battery using wall power by turning on climate control using the mobile app. When the Battery warms up, the blue portion on the meter and the snowflake image are no longer displayed.

 

[Big Earl]

Please post a single shred of evidence that cold damages Leaf batteries. Evidence, not feelings, in a Leaf. I get that it rustles your jimmies that a Leaf has better regen in the cold, but we're talking facts here.

The warranty goes until 2025 so I'm not too concerned and the next owner won't be either, likely the owner after that as well.

While I can't offer you specific evidence of cold charging damage in a LEAF, I can offer you this: cold charging limitations are accepted battery science. Nissan's engineers clearly have their own ideas about battery thermal management, which, in the grand scheme of things, has resulted in some of the worst degradation issues in the modern electric car industry. Tesla has clearly opted to follow (and sometimes define) industry best practices, with very minimal battery degradation over time.

From Charging at High and Low Temperatures

Li ion can be fast charged from 5°C to 45°C (41 to 113°F). Below 5°C, the charge current should be reduced, and no charging is permitted at freezing temperatures because of the reduced diffusion rates on the anode. During charge, the internal cell resistance causes a slight temperature rise that compensates for some of the cold. The internal resistance of all batteries rises when cold, prolonging charge times noticeably.

 

[whatthe2]

I left my car at Denver airport this week. Here’s what it currently shows for those that are curious when it’s cold and range is affected.

 

[BobAbooey]

From what I’ve read the section of the battery status that is blue when the snowflake icon is present represents the estimated range lost due to the cold outside temperature.

See this article for some related info: Tesla releases new mobile app update with battery preconditioning feature and more

So we can precondition the battery via the app? Hmmmm