So all model S are 100D now

[ucmndd]

You don't know which on which side of SOC is the battery locked.


And assuming, that the software lock is on the full SOC side, which is a pure speculation... It might be limited from both ends or even just by having a bigger brick protection buffer on the near empty SOC.

Prior software locked batteries have been shown definitively to be locked at the top end by limiting max SoC. I can't imagine any scenario where that would be changed now.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Damn, I am bummed I bought the 75D in Sep... if I had held out for a bit more I could have gotten 400V and a lot higher charging speed + possible V3 capabilities. DOH.

You must do a substantial amount of road tripping then? If not, then at least you have a lighter more nimble car that isn't hauling around extra batteries that you rarely need.

 

[emmz0r]

You must do a substantial amount of road tripping then? If not, then at least you have a lighter more nimble car that isn't hauling around extra batteries that you rarely need.

I do. My family lives 4 hours away. Also I have a customer who needs me for meetings which is even further away (5 hours).

 

[vickh]

Like the model 3 I guess. You can spec the new options on the US Website.

except the medium range M3 is hardware limited right?

 

[whitex]

You don't know which on which side of SOC is the battery locked.


And assuming, that the software lock is on the full SOC side, which is a pure speculation... It might be limited from both ends or even just by having a bigger brick protection buffer on the near empty SOC.

Both software limited 60D's and 70D's were limited on the top end. While we have not seen the SR yet, in all likelyhood they will use the same, already developed and tested approach and code.

 

[gilscales]

except the medium range M3 is hardware limited right?

Yes, less batteries in the same pack structure, they just left some cell spots empty to offer a better price on the 3 until they can manage to get the SR battery into production

 

[cityberty]

Ok, it’s pretty obvious now: Tesla has scaled up production and is producing more batteries than people are buying cars for. A while back motors were the limiting part (rear wheel drive M3 only available initially). Perhaps they need to pump out some power walls and utility batteries. They are scaling up as fast as possible, and battery production must be ahead of engineering. I think we’ll see the refreshed MS125 with 21700 batteries or the Model Y and/or Semi very soon. I don’t think that they want to open up the lower cost SR M3 just yet. To improve financials, they’re probably pushing lessons learned from the M3 into a new MS and soon afterwards the MY.

On the earnings call Elon just said no to 2170 for S and X at least not in current plans

 

[emmz0r]

On the earnings call Elon just said no to 2170 for S and X at least not in current plans

This basically means that the "Flagship cars" are abandoned for time being.

 

[sandpiper]

This basically means that the "Flagship cars" are abandoned for time being.

Yeah... I’m not sure what to make of this. I would have expected ‘eventually,’ or some sort of less unambiguous response.

Clearly this is a disguised 8K price reduction for the 100d. They’ve software limited it enough to say its different. And I expect that eventually the limit will disappear. Practically there wasn’t a lot if cost differerence between the 75d and 100d... if you believe they’re at 125/kWh at the cell level, that’s only $3k. And there was a cost associated with maintaining different module designs and battery skus. So it’s really less than that.

If Tesla can maintain volume at this new pricing (debatable) then this could improve earnings. Maybe that’s their thought?

The only other way I can interpret this is to think that Tesla is really struggling to get out a meaningful update for the S. That wouldn’t be surprising. But it would be deeply concerning.

 

[ucmndd]

This basically means that the "Flagship cars" are abandoned for time being.

I have a hard time understanding why people are so hung up about the physical dimensions of the cells as some sort of indication of quality or flagship-worthiness.

 

[PhilDavid]

I have a hard time understanding why people are so hung up about the physical dimensions of the cells as some sort of indication of quality or flagship-worthiness.

I guess those people are assuming Tesla improved the cell chemistry and capabilities for the 2170 during the 6 years since the Model S first rolled out... Perhaps those people are right.

If 2170 cells are required for Supercharger 3.0 speeds, it would be quite bizarre to have the flagship vehicle limited in charging speed but I guess they can always software limit the Model 3 charging to match the maximum that can be supported by the Model S for now.

I feel by the time the Taycan is widely available Tesla needs to do something meaningful to refresh the Model S.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I have a hard time understanding why people are so hung up about the physical dimensions of the cells as some sort of indication of quality or flagship-worthiness.

I agree. The biggest difference between the new and old battery packs is cost. AFAIK there is no performance or longevity improvement.

 

[ucmndd]

I guess those people are assuming Tesla improved the cell chemistry and capabilities for the 2170 during the 6 years since the Model S first rolled out... Perhaps those people are right.

There’s zero reason to suspect those cell chemistry advancements haven’t made it into the legacy cell dimensions. By all available measurements, the 100kwh pack is superior to everything prior and has obviously advanced from the 6-years-ago packs.

If 2170 cells are required for Supercharger 3.0 speeds, it would be quite bizarre to have the flagship vehicle limited in charging speed but I guess they can always software limit the Model 3 charging to match the maximum that can be supported by the Model S for now.

There is very obviously headroom for faster charging speeds in the current 100 pack. Look at the taper curve. I see no reason to expect that 2170 cells are required for SCv3 benefit.

The 75, on the other hand, had to go.

I feel by the time the Taycan is widely available Tesla needs to do something meaningful to refresh the Model S.

Don’t disagree, although I see them responding after the fact, once the Taycan is on the market and the capabilities are known.

 

[ecarfan]

Incoming larger battery, or perhaps a full chassis refresh. It's been expected for a long time, and the simple update would be a 2170 battery in the S as it is now

During the Q4 2019 Tesla earnings call today, in response to a question, Elon unequivocably stated that “There are no plans to switch S and X to 2170 cells.”

 

[ecarfan]

I feel by the time the Taycan is widely available Tesla needs to do something meaningful to refresh the Model S.

The Taycan is not going into volume production for perhaps another year. As to its range, here’s what this article says: Porsche Taycan specs confirmed: 600-plus hp, 310-mile range

QUOTE: “When it comes to range, the Taycan will aim for 310 miles, or 500 kilometers, in the European cycle.”

Which means its EPA range will be much less than that; I’ve read estimates of 250 to 280 miles. Which in my opinion means the range of the Taycan will not be competitive with the Model S in terms of range. Nor, based on published reports, will it be competitive in 0-60 times. I do expect the Taycan to offer superior handling and definitely superior performance on the track. But then the S was never designed to be a track car.

I think the Taycan will take some sales from the Model S, but not many.

 

[Tic-tac-toe]

Porsche’s high speed charging network are mostly being built at their dealerships - not convenient for road trips.... and the Taycan’s published 0 to 60 time are 3.3 secs, comparable to a P3.

No thanks.

 

[Dypkny845]

News flash people. As of right now Tesla/Pannasonic is leading the game in managing their batteries. There is no competition still for Tesla there is only possible competitors. Tesla is waiting to see what the BIG CORP players roll out in the next couple of years also they are trying to get battery production down to a profit for 2170. They will not redesign the S/X until there is competition in that area. The only competition right now is against their Model 3. Tesla finally mastered their battery and others are learning from Tesla.

 

[ucmndd]

Porsche’s high speed charging network are mostly being built at their dealerships - not convenient for road trips.... and the Taycan’s published 0 to 60 time are 3.3 secs, comparable to a P3.

No thanks.

3 years of free charging on the EA network is not insignificant, even if it's "only" ~150kw in most places.

 

[FlatSix911]

I'm guessing Tesla wants to accomplish two things :
1) 300 miles to be the floor for Model S range
2) Get market used to standard/extended range designations

Software limiting the 100kWh pack is probably the cheapest way to do this in the short term. I expect them to announce an extended range version with more range, possibly new cells, in the near future.

From the Tesla 4Q18 update to shareholders...

We recently stopped taking orders for the 75 kWh versions of Model S and Model X and will focus on the longer-range versions of these flagship products instead, with the recent introduction of a 310 mile range base Model S and 270 mile range base Model X. Over the years, we have been gradually simplifying options for Model S and Model X by standardizing options such as the air suspension, AWD, premium package, and glass roof.

This is yet another step towards increased standardization, which results in significantly lower manufacturing cost.
Additionally, we believe this will provide more differentiation between Model S and Model 3.

 

[mdevp]

Anyone know if all Models are all using the larger, P100D electric motor now? I can't find this question answered anywhere!