So Cal Edison - Time Of Use EV Rates?

[SoCalNick]

So, I'm a Southern California Edison customer.

I have solar panels, but only generate about 90% of my electricity.
I typically have a $40 per month electricity bill (averaged over 12 months.)
I typically use Rate1, and sometimes Rate2 on my current Tiered rate plan.

There is an EV Time Of Use plan.
They appear to say it's available for 15 hours per day (cheap) but since so many people get 12am vs 12pm confused, I though I would check...
Also, they seem to show that the HIGH period is bigger than the CHEAP period, but the hours do not back that up...

Has anyone with SoCalEdison used these plans - and are they a good thing or a bad thing.
I have a S100D on order and drive about 20K per year.

 

[Tam]

The graph does not mean to represent the length of time in the correct proportion.

It only means for the price: higher price occupies more area in the graph and lesser price occupies less area in the graph.

If you have the discipline to use electricity during cheaper hours then TOU is for you.

 

[ran349]

So, I'm a Southern California Edison customer.

I have solar panels, but only generate about 90% of my electricity.
I typically have a $40 per month electricity bill (averaged over 12 months.)
I typically use Rate1, and sometimes Rate2 on my current Tiered rate plan.

There is an EV Time Of Use plan.
They appear to say it's available for 15 hours per day (cheap) but since so many people get 12am vs 12pm confused, I though I would check...
Also, they seem to show that the HIGH period is bigger than the CHEAP period, but the hours do not back that up...

Has anyone with SoCalEdison used these plans - and are they a good thing or a bad thing.
I have a S100D on order and drive about 20K per year.

I am in SoCal and have SCE also. The plan I use is TOU-D-A and it definitely reduces my electrical cost. The plan you show assumes you will have a dedicated meter for your car. Is that what you are planning to do? Looking at the rates, I don't see any real savings or advantage in having the dedicated meter, unless you just want to track your car usage separately from everything else. It seems like the bulk of your electrical usage will be from your car, so it will definitely benefit you to use TOU, assuming you charge your car during super off peak hours, but you should consider TOU-D-A as well to determine which plan is best for you.

 

[Dukeybootie]

I'm on TOU-D-A with SCE and have solar. Despite driving 24k miles annually and using A/C freely in the summer, I've racked up a negative electric bill since turning on the solar panels two years ago. Net metering is a big part of the equation here and should be taken into consideration when making calculations. Couldn't be happier overall.

 

[SoCalNick]

Okay, so I spoke to SCE this morning.

It seems like a fairly large project to install the meter, but having said that it also seems like a large project to install the 240v circuit, and this is really just the same project.
My FIL is an electrician, so I'm not too concerned about the cost..

So, if I put in the meter, I have a $3 per month charge.
The meter costs $0, but there is a $5 site fee for inspection.

My electrical rates on the meter are 14c per kWh from 9pm until noon. So really I would NEVER use the peak rate.

Because my solar only provides 90% of the power to the house, I do not see any benefit in hooking up the Solar to the Tesla.

So, I think my plan is as follows.
Leave the current house on Tiered billing.
Put in a new meter for the Tesla, and only charge between 9pm and noon the next day, to guarantee 14c power.

To install the meter:
SCE will install a meter on the outside.
I have to have permits to do the job, so a real electrician.
I need a new panel on the outside of the house. I think a 100Amp panel would allow for two chargers inside the garage, should I ever need it.
I will initially charge the car with the mobile connector, using a NEMA 14-50 240V plug.
Once I get a wall connector, i will install it UNDERNEATH the plug, leaving the plug in place.
If the wall connector should ever fail, i can go back to the mobile connector.
If we get a 2nd Tesla, I can install 2 wall connectors and tell them to share the circuilt, OR I could use two mobile connectors.
I just don't think i could use a mobile connector and a wall charger.
I'll put the outlets on the central pillar in my garage.

I'm a little concerned about the cost of the panel, etc, but will get some quotes and figure out what needs doing.

 

[Tam]

....I just don't think i could use a mobile connector and a wall charger....

Not on a same breaker. You can if each on its own breaker.

...100Amp...

That would be fine for two NEMA 14-50 outlets.

When asking a permit for 2 HPWCs, some inspectors only allow 1 HPWC because each is rated 100A. You have to explain and persuade inspector that you have a master and slave HPWCs with a combine total of 80A actual usage at any given time.

 

[Az_Rael]

It seems like a fairly large project to install the meter,

SCE may have updated their requirements, but when I looked into this (had both SCE and my electrician at my house together going over the project), it turned out SCE needed a custom sub meter box that was not available on the general market. Overall, the new meter was going to add $1500 on top of the costs to install my 240V, so I skipped it.

 

[Petra]

@SoCalNick Have SCE run a net energy calculation for you based on your usage and compare rate schedules that way. I'm net metered on SCE's TOU-D-A with a 5kW solar setup and use at least 1100kWh more than I produce annually, but I always end up with a few hundred dollars worth of monetary credit at the end of each one year relevant period (which really just means that I need to use more power, since the monetary credit gets zeroed). I basically pay nothing for power.

 

[Need]

I am in SoCal and have SCE also. The plan I use is TOU-D-A and it definitely reduces my electrical cost. The plan you show assumes you will have a dedicated meter for your car. Is that what you are planning to do? Looking at the rates, I don't see any real savings or advantage in having the dedicated meter, unless you just want to track your car usage separately from everything else. It seems like the bulk of your electrical usage will be from your car, so it will definitely benefit you to use TOU, assuming you charge your car during super off peak hours, but you should consider TOU-D-A as well to determine which plan is best for you.

I have no idea why anyone will pick the dedicated meter plan TOU-EV-1. The overnight rate is higher than both TOU-D-A and TOU-D-B.
Summer weekday rate for TOU-EV-1 are $0.14 (9pm to 12pm), $0.34 (12pm to 9pm)
Summer weekday rate for TOU-D-B are $0.13 (10pm to 8am), $0.16 (8am to 2pm), $0.33 (2pm to 8pm), $0.16 (8pm to 10pm)

If you look at the rate, the only time it is cheaper on EV-1 is to use your electricity between 8am to 12pm, and 9pm to 10pm. You would think the EV rate should have a overnight of $0.09 to even cheaper. Why is EV rate overnight higher than any other TOU rate?

 

[d21mike]

I just switched to TOU-D-B. You can do an online review and mine showed 6% less with TOU-D-B. However, that was before my car so just using A/C. And it was a few months OLD. Anyway, I do not commute for work so decided to give it a try. And also make sure to schedule my charging at the .13 rate. I am concerned about the 2pm - 8pm during the summer but I am just past that so my A/C use is now going to be low until next June or so. There is a fixed rate as well but forgot it. I called and discussed with customer service to review what I was doing. She was helpful. The other problem if you decide to change back then you have to stay on that plan for 1 year.

 

[SoCalNick]

My biggest conern with switching to TOD rates is that the AC runs during the summer, and runs a lot.
Before I got solar, my power bill in the winter was $250 per month, and $550 in the summer. Kids being home from school during the summer, pool pump going, TV left on, doors left open, you get the picture.
Since I got solar, my usage has gone WAY down, but I still go over during the summer.

So, if I don't switch, I will add usage, that will move me from Tier 1 into Tier2 and that cost gets expensive. I drive 400 miles per week, so that's 5-6 full charges per month at 120kWh (rounding up based on 20% power loss on charging) so thats 700kWh on my bill.

If I switch to TOD rates, I'm seriously worried about the amount of power being used during the summer, even with solar.
True, my car would definately charge at 13c at night instead of 14c but if the kids leave the bad door open 1 time too many, and I lose all of my savings.

Last option is to install the 2nd meter.
I need to find out what the real costs are, but if I can get that done, I have a guaranteed rate on the car, and the house stays exactly where it is...

I'll keep you guys posted with costs.

 

[Need]

My biggest conern with switching to TOD rates is that the AC runs during the summer, and runs a lot.
Before I got solar, my power bill in the winter was $250 per month, and $550 in the summer. Kids being home from school during the summer, pool pump going, TV left on, doors left open, you get the picture.
Since I got solar, my usage has gone WAY down, but I still go over during the summer.

So, if I don't switch, I will add usage, that will move me from Tier 1 into Tier2 and that cost gets expensive. I drive 400 miles per week, so that's 5-6 full charges per month at 120kWh (rounding up based on 20% power loss on charging) so thats 700kWh on my bill.

If I switch to TOD rates, I'm seriously worried about the amount of power being used during the summer, even with solar.
True, my car would definately charge at 13c at night instead of 14c but if the kids leave the bad door open 1 time too many, and I lose all of my savings.

Last option is to install the 2nd meter.
I need to find out what the real costs are, but if I can get that done, I have a guaranteed rate on the car, and the house stays exactly where it is...

I'll keep you guys posted with costs.

I did some calculation before I switched to TOU-D-B (The D stands for Domestic BTW as the SCE person told me). With the Model X, I am already going way over Tier 1, so half o my bill is charged as the same rate as the TOU-D-B peak rate anyway. If I add the Model X charging, I would be pretty much charging the car all Tier 2 and maybe even to the High Usage Tier. So TOU-D-B is my only choice. Now if I install Solar, I think TOU-D-A may be better when solar offset some of the AC usage.

My plan is to see to go the next 3 or 4 months with TOU-D-B and see how much more I am paying. And see if installing Solar is worth it. It will probably be worth it as I use so much electricity even without the car.

 

[aus]

OP, my numbers are pretty much exactly like yours. My panels put me in Tier 1/2 most of the time on the standard plan.
With TOU-A, you sell back at the higher rate most of the day, and use the electricity mostly at night. We now do laundry at night and you can even run the pool pump at night, though just make sure you can run it while charging the car. Dishwasher runs at night after 10PM too.
I used to have a $30-40 bill each month but now have $20-30 credit each month since I'm selling back at peak prices. We still run to pool, but it ends before 2PM when the price is the highest.
.

 

[smilepak]

Works fine for me. I got solar that covers 97% of my house (minus Tesla) and on SCE TOU. I charge only after 10:00 PM daily. My annual electric bill is under $500.00 (minus tax and fees)

 

[outie]

It's hard to give any meaningful estimation / suggestion without hard data. For example, how big is your solar system, which direction does your solar system face, how many kWh do you use in summer/winter, how's your usage by hour on a daily basis, etc.

I switched to TOU-D-A after getting the Tesla. In the past year since getting the car I am net consumer (of 6,000kWh) yet I don't have to pay at annual true-up, only monthly fees on the months I generated a lot of e-. If I was on the tiered plan and as a net consumer, I'd be paying a lot for it.

 

[SoCalNick]

Thanks for the reply AUS, this is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[comanchepilot]

I promise you, if you generate 90% of your power, when you go to TOU-EV, you will get a huge negative every month.

why? Because TOU gives you .28/.34 kwh peak winter/summer rates.

And Edison must buy back your mid day surplus power at the rate they charge.

We use 34kwh a day when charging the car - but 18 of that is overnight when the rate is only .11 kwh.

If I had solar- I could sell back surplus day power at a higher rate than I am using it.

Its not about generating all of your own power, its about having a solar array to offset the total cost of your power.

Solar companies wanted to install a $38k system generating 20kwh - but after doing the math - we only needed a 6kwh system to reduce our power bill [but not consumption] to zero. . . . you are not going to be able to get a refund in the future - so it makes zero sense to surplus generating capacity at your expense and give free power to SCE.

 

[SoCalNick]

Thanks for the replies.

SCE are sending me a report on my usage - will take them 7 days to generate. I think that the TOU will be the way to go.

Thanks everyone.

 

[aus]

Thanks for the reply AUS, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I recently got an actual check from Edison for surplus money. I didn't think I'd actually get a check from them!

 

[comanchepilot]

I recently got an actual check from Edison for surplus money. I didn't think I'd actually get a check from them!

After 7/1/18 the net generation rules change . . .