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So has anyone already received a new S 60 with software-limited 75 kWh battery?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Master One, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. Master One

    Master One Member

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    Is it still speculation, that
    • the battery of the new S 60 can be charged till full (=80% of real capacity) at all times without downside?
    • the software-limitation is implemented in a way, that the charge slider does not allow to be moved beyond 80% (capping capacity only from the top end)?
    • supercharging goes full speed until fully charged (=80% of real capacity)?
    • it will still recuperate even when fully charged (=80% of real capacity)?
    Or is there any real data from owners, who already have received their new S 60?
     
  2. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    I think I have seen that the charge slider goes all the way to 1005, and that it will not regen when it is highly charged.
     
  3. privater

    privater 2016 Model S60 owner

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    I have the new software limited Model S 60, I can confirm:
    1. You can safely charge to 100% all the time, that's during the orientation session with technician.
    2. No, it shows 60 kWh as 100% like 210 rated Miles. You can unlock 75 kWh in tesla online, there is a button there. But not a button in car system.
    3. I went to Supercharger once, shared with another owner, start from 60%, my observation is 210a at that time, I'd safely say it's match the s85/90 charge speed, a lot faster than 3 years ago original 60kWh version.
    4. I don't know what recuperate mean, sorry.
     
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  4. jfoxny

    jfoxny Member

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    I got mine this past Tuesday and can confirm a few things.

    Supercharging does not slow down like it normally would when it gets to the last 20%. That would seem to indicate that it's not charging the last 20% and therefore it would be safe to charge to 100% all the time. However, that has not been confirmed by Teala AFAIK.

    You can slide the charge level to 100%. However, when set this way the car does periodically warn you about battery degradation like normal but that doesn't really mean anything IMHO.

    I'm not sure what your question about recouperation was about. Could you clarify?

    Tesla did confirm that to me that the car is upgradable to 75kwh at anytime despite the option being taken away from the configurator.
     
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  5. thimel

    thimel Member

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    Is regenerative braking braking still available full strength when it is at 100% charge?
     
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  6. Master One

    Master One Member

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    OK, that is indeed very interesting, thanks a lot for the feedback on these questions.

    I did not expect that the charge slider goes up to 100%, AFAIK that was different on the S40 (with software limited 60 kWh battery), and it is kind of odd if the vehicle nevertheless brings up the battery degradation warning even with the remaining buffer of 15 kWh. That would mean the software limitation has been implemented in a way so that the car does not really know about the real capacity, and makes me assume that recuperation will not work once close to 100% (= actual 80%) neither.

    Sorry, I didn't know that recuperation is called regenerative braking over there. So question # 4 should have read:
    • Will regenerative braking still work even when fully charged (=80% of real capacity)?
    That would have made sense, if (external) charging was limited to 80% of the real capacity, but since fully charged really means just 80% of the real capacity, regenerative braking could have been able to charge the battery beyond that point.

    So if regenerative breaking is actually not working when fully charged (=80% of real capacity), that's bad for us, because we live on a hill, and that means first thing in the morning (after overnight charging) we go downhill for about 1 km, which I really would not like to do actually braking without regeneration.

    Can anyone with a new S 60 clarify that matter with regenerative braking when fully charged?

    BTW There is absolutely no doubt that the S 60 v2 indeed comes with a 75 kWh battery, it is just the implementation and implication of the software limitation, that concerns me.
     
  7. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    Couldn't you just charge to 95% to be able to use regen down your hill? It just wouldn't make sense that regen would still work at 100% because the battery isn't going to be able to fill past the software limit.
     
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  8. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    When I fully charge my 70D which has a 75kwh battery on board that's software limited, I am unable to do any regenerative braking. I also get the warning when I charge to 100%, which I disregard because I'm obviously not truly charging it to 100%.
     
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  9. Master One

    Master One Member

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    Yes, with the Tesla it will definitely be easier than with our Nissan LEAF, which only offers to charge either to 80% or 100%. The tricky part will be to find the most useful setting, I'd like to start the day with a full battery, but the first 1 km downhill (with the steepest part being 18%) recuperates more than 250 Wh. I have driven down with the LEAF just two times so far with full battery, that's no fun with exclusive use of the real brake. So since there is no other setting, I charge the LEAF only to 80% every day. The LEAF does not even fully recuperate when charged at around 90%, regenerative braking is not just on/off but regulated gradually depending on the battery charge.

    Well, so to sum up the facts about the new S 60 v2:
    • It can be fully charged at all times without regret, even with the battery degradation warning showing up, because the vehicle thinks fully charged = 100%, although it's actually just 80%.
    • The charge slider can be moved to 100%, so the software limitation is not obvious to the eye or for the vehicle.
    • Supercharging works full speed up to 100%, thanks to the 15 kWh buffer at the top (which remains the only advantage of the more on real capacity)
    • Regenerative braking does not work when fully charged.
    Still, I can see no good reason for us to unlock those extra 15 kWh, especially not for the current price. Time will tell if they will lower the price for that option in the future, but that may as well never happen.
     
  10. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    If you could regen at "100%" with a software limited battery you could basically "cheat" the limitation: Drive up a big hill, charge to "100%", drive down the hill, end up with more than 100% charge at the bottom of the hill...

    Or even better: charge to 100%, tow the car behind a truck with regen enabled, "charge" using this method all the way to the equivalent of 100% charge on an unlocked 75.
     
  11. Reeler

    Reeler 6 Years of Pure EV

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    Some theorize that there is actually 64KWh in the software locked 60 battery because the numbers don't add up.

    I am guessing that since 90 means less than that and 75 does too to provide safety margin, they don't need to give less than 60KWh on the 60 and can make that fully available in a way that the 90 or 75 cannot. Hard drives are similarly marketed.

    This makes the 60 the best deal out there because you have 100% of the advertised capacity available. They should fix the regen thing since I expect it when I release the accelerator and could imaging running into someone because how it behaves when coming to a stop.
     
  12. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    I think what you're probably intending to say is correct - the software limited 60 will Supercharge at the same rate as a 75 with the same number of rated miles remaining.

    However, that won't be anywhere near full speed/110 kW when you get up near 100% - the supercharger starts pulling back power somewhere in the 30% or 40% range I believe.

    By the time you get to the 60's limit, around the 80% mark on a 75, you're probably down in the 20-30 kWh range (still much faster than any of the others approaching 100%, which are down in single digits.)
     
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  13. Master One

    Master One Member

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    Yes, that's what I was intending to say :)

    And another correction:

    There are two advantages of the more on real capacity, the first being the ability to always charge to 100% without any downside for battery life, the other being the premium supercharging speed. I'm loving it! :D
     
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  14. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    Please don't drive near me! :eek:;)
     
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  15. Reeler

    Reeler 6 Years of Pure EV

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    I am too used to the strong regen for sure. One foot driver. :D
     
  16. Master One

    Master One Member

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    Indeed, one-pedal-driving is the very best use of the regenerative brake, and it is a pity that it does not work when the new S60 is fully charged, after all reducing recuperation to nil is only in place for batter overcharge protection, which clearly is not necessary on a fully charged S 60 with 75 kWh battery.
     
  17. NickF

    NickF 60D

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    Pretty sure it's been established, but here is a charge on my 1 day old 60D... 40/40A all the way through....


    60D_Charge.png
     
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  18. Cnasty

    Cnasty Member

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    What did you use? Home NEMA14-50?

    How does the car know which amp to pull or what my house offers?

    Newbie here
     
  19. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    That's a function of the charge cord, properly called an an EVSE. It tells the car how much current is available and the car has to respect that.

    The Tesla cord, called the UMC ( universal mobile connector ) has several options for plugs on the house end, and tells the car different things based on which plug is connected (two options are included with the UMC - 14-50 like Ovens and RVs use and 5-15, the standard household plug.)

    Tesla allows you to choose a rate on the center screen (possibly also in the phone app?) up to what the EVSE says is available, which is where this discussion of turning the rate down comes from.
     
  20. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    These are Teslas -- very high-tech cars. They have odor detectors that can sense the insulation in your house wiring starting to smolder
    when it is drawing too much power and back off. ;)

    Seriously, though, as an EE I have a theory as to how they do this: the amount of current that a wire can (safely) carry depends on
    the resistance of the wire (which, in turn, depends on the thickness of the wire); the more current you draw through a given resistance,
    the more the voltage will drop; I suspect the car simply senses how much the line voltage drops as the current draw increases, does a
    little simple math, and figures out what the effective current capacity of the line is. Of course, if you have a low-amperage breaker in
    there it can't know that, so it will probably trip it. The car also knows the upper limit of each type of connector, so it will never try to go
    over the maximum rated limit for any given connector type.

    (Somewhat) related: has anyone ever had the car refuse to charge from, say, a 117v outlet? This happened to me recently when
    travelling. I figured there were two possibilities: the 3-prong outlet wasn't actually grounded (alarmingly common), and the car detected
    a ground fault just as a GFI would; or the rather ancient house wiring it was powered through couldn't supply even the minimum
    current to do any reasonable charging at all.
     

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