So...has anyone dyno'ed a P3D yet?

[Knightshade]

You cannot add the front and the rear power to get the total HP. it does not work this way, it could be limited by many things including front and rear motor do not have the same characteristic, battery, software... You can read some other post in this forum that explain that in details.

Can you link to any of them? Because the chart sure doesn't make sense as written.


RWD is 211kw and they're claiming 192 total max power about a 9% "loss" from just adding up the motors.

P adds up to 358 and they're claiming 340 total max power, about a 5% loss (or half the loss of the single motor car)

But with the AWD the motors add up to 335 but they're claiming only 258 total max power... a loss of about 23%.

With no explanation for where any of their "claimed" 'total' numbers come from at all at all.

 

[9114s]

You can look here or google it for more. Cheers
"Detailed specs of the motors in the RWD, AWD, and AWD-P model 3 cars : teslamotors"

 

[Knightshade]

You can look here or google it for more. Cheers
"Detailed specs of the motors in the RWD, AWD, and AWD-P model 3 cars : teslamotors"

Nothing in that thread explains why that chart appears to have just made up numbers different from actually adding the EPA numbers other than one post that just says 'You can't add them' without explaining how to get "real" numbers.

Mostly it's people arguing about the P having different motors or inverters, both of which we know are not true now.

And from those who have dynoed a RWD we know the claimed "real" number in the chart is not close to accurate.... so why would we think the apparently made up "real" numbers for AWD/P are correct, especially when nobody can explain how those numbers are calculated?

 

[9114s]

Most of "Dynoed" numbers especially AWD for EV are BS (not sophisticated system enough for EV, bad operator or not properly trained, not calibrated system...etc). Do the math and physic (google it) and you will realize these numbers are matching very closely with the HP/torque needed to get these numbers. Tesla is not telling us the algorithm and tuning of the front and back motor and how they are working together. I was just trying to help. Have a good day.

 

[9114s]

How Does Horsepower Figure Into Electric Cars?

This one explain well why HP for ICE and EV are not the same.

 

[acoste]

How Does Horsepower Figure Into Electric Cars?

This one explain well why HP for ICE and EV are not the same.

They are mixing up power and torque in that article. Power is torque x speed.

So the power is 0 at the speed of 0 but the torque is at maximum. And the maximum horsepower is at around 55 mph for electric cars. The electric motor loses torque above a certain speed. Here is a curve for an electric car (not exact, just an illustration).

Since the electric car has max torque at low speeds it is faster than ICE at the beginning. But at high speeds ICE cars are faster since their peak power is at high rpm.

Nm = torque
kW = power

 

[9114s]

Nothing in that thread explains why that chart appears to have just made up numbers different from actually adding the EPA numbers other than one post that just says 'You can't add them' without explaining how to get "real" numbers.

Mostly it's people arguing about the P having different motors or inverters, both of which we know are not true now.

... so why would we think the apparently made up "real" numbers for AWD/P are correct, especially when nobody can explain how those numbers are calculated?

Aloha
LR: 287HP 302 ft-lbs or 410Nm
AWD: 351HP 389 ft-lbs or 527Nm
P AWD: 462HP 497 ft-lbs or 639Nm

All the numbers published in my previous post nov 1st 2018 are confirmed by these good dyno runs. see latest video / dyno numbers for AWD and AWD P. Also The green and yellow lines are chill mode with same numbers from both cars 205HP and 234 ft-lbs

dyno from below:
AWD: 367HP 393 ft-lbs with 83%SOC
P AWD: 463HP 496 ft-lbs with 89%SOC

Video available in Ultra High Definition (4K: 3840x2160p) on YouTube:

The dyno event occured on November 30, 2018 at National Speed in Richmond, VA. Their dynonameter equipment was DynoJet 424xLC2. We dyno'ed @ScottFrancis 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive and my 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Performance Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive with Performance Upgrade to compare max horsepower and torque. We also dyno'ed both cars in Chill Mode for giggles and to compare.

From the YouTube video above or the attached chart in PDF, here are the results:
2:16 - Dyno'ing Scott's Dual Motor (non-Performance) with 83% SOC
3:56 - Dyno graph result of Scott's car (max power=367.17 HP, max torque=393.64 ft-lbs)
4:00 - Dyno'ing Hoang's Performance with 89% SOC
5:40 - Dyno graph result of Hoang's car (max power=463.71 HP, max torque=496.28 ft-lbs)
5:44 - Dyno'ing Scott's in Chill Mode with Slip Start with 81% SOC
7:29 - Dyno'ing Hoang's in Chill Mode (no Slip Start) with 88% SOC
8:50 - Dyno graph result of both Scott's and Hoang's cars in Chill Mode (Dual Motor: power=205.65 HP, torque=234.44 ft-lbs | Performance: power=203.65 HP, torque=233.75 ft-lbs)

We both started out at about 90% SOC at National Speed when we both Supercharged at a nearby Supercharger. Scott got to National Speed first after finish charging to 93% SOC, I was late due to traffic and trying to catch up with the charging to about 94% SOC (extra 1% to compensate the performance happy electrons). The reason that Scott's car dropped down to low 80s% SOC was due from National Speed trying to configure their DynoJet to compute torque, which took them some time and robbed some charge. They were also researching how others tried to calculate the torque on dynos, but they didn't like what they found on the Internet or the lack of information thereof. National Speed did get in touch with the DynoJet technical support to solve the torque issue. We tried to stop the power bleed by charging Scott's car in between testing stages with the included mobile connector. George did explain how torque was calculated in the above video. But the good thing was that the actual dyno runs were virtually consistent with each other that it didn't matter much. This isn't shown in the video above, but from the other videos I have and the dyno results that National Speed have, it wasn't worth posting neglible results. If I posted everything, the video would've been about twice as long.

From the dyno runs, we can make an educated conclusion that the Dual Motor (non-Performance) appears to be software limited due to the near flat power from about 5000-11600 RPM. This is evident by the Chill Mode's dyno results with similar torque curves for both cars. Chill Mode handicaps the Performance down to nearly the same power/torque output as the Dual Motor (non-Performance). If you ever want dead even race with another Tesla Model 3, Chill Mode is something to look into.

For those who are interested in beyond dyno numbers, you can see my Dragy runs results for 0-65 MPH, 1/8 mile, and 1/4 mile measured times.

Big thanks to Scott Francis for sparking the original dyno quest that expanded to include my car (Performance); those who supported the dyno funding in the original thread; George Taylor III, Matt Wells, Jeremy Hamill, and others at National Speed. Also thanks to @MountainPass for doing their due diligence with dyno'ing their Tesla Model 3 RWD:

I decided to post the following dyno results separate from the original thread here: GoFundMe to Dyno the AWD (non-Performance)
This is because the title of the original thread wouldn't properly capture attention of those who are looking at titles of the posts for specific information. Scott did initially post up the results in that thread in a timely manner.

Sorry for the late posting at almost 2 months later sitting on valuable data, mainly the videos. I was too busy with work and family life (my toddler just can't stay still!). The holidays in between didn't help either to free up my time.

 

[Nocturnal]

Aloha
LR: 287HP 302 ft-lbs or 410Nm
AWD: 351HP 389 ft-lbs or 527Nm
P AWD: 462HP 497 ft-lbs or 639Nm

All the numbers published in my previous post nov 1st 2018 are confirmed by these good dyno runs. see latest video / dyno numbers for AWD and AWD P. Also The green and yellow lines are chill mode with same numbers from both cars 205HP and 234 ft-lbs

dyno from below:
AWD: 367HP 393 ft-lbs with 83%SOC
P AWD: 463HP 496 ft-lbs with 89%SOC

IIRC the P is rated at 450HP and 475ft lbs right? Great numbers, thanks for sharing.

 

[Knightshade]

Aloha
LR: 287HP 302 ft-lbs or 410Nm
AWD: 351HP 389 ft-lbs or 527Nm
P AWD: 462HP 497 ft-lbs or 639Nm

All the numbers published in my previous post nov 1st 2018 are confirmed by these good dyno runs. see latest video / dyno numbers for AWD and AWD P. Also The green and yellow lines are chill mode with same numbers from both cars 205HP and 234 ft-lbs

dyno from below:
AWD: 367HP 393 ft-lbs with 83%SOC
P AWD: 463HP 496 ft-lbs with 89%SOC

So I appreciate the dyno links you posted (though I've already seen them from other threads)- but I did find it kinda funny this is also you-

Most of "Dynoed" numbers especially AWD for EV are BS (not sophisticated system enough for EV, bad operator or not properly trained, not calibrated system...etc).

Also, your #s aren't "confirmed" on the RWD by dyno runs- if anything they've been contradicted by them- as I pointed out previously... the RWD dynos are much higher than the #s in your original chart.

Which is why again it seems dyno #s on an EV are a lot less useful for judging real world performance than they used to be for ICE cars....

For example- consider the "chart" claim that the AWD has (depending which chart of yours we use) 64 or 80 more hp than the RWD... (and far less than that based on the actual RWD dyno info we've got)- while the P has either 111 or 96 more hp than AWD.

Yet the 1/4 mile trap speeds show over that quarter mile the AWD and P end up very close to each other (trap speed traditionally being an excellent proxy for power)- while the RWD is very far behind both.

 

[9114s]

I agree I drove both my AWD car (i got it finally 2 weeks ago) and a friend LR RWD and the start from 0 feels only a little bit faster on the AWD but not much, but the biggest difference is the passing power (or acceleration) from 50 to 70 or 60 to 80 and here you can really feel that the RWD is missing HP/torque at these higher speeds to compete.

 

[EVTracker]

Any chance you could dyno again after the 5% HP increase? Most anxious to see how/where they get the 5%.
Thanks.