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So is it definitive for practical purposes that AWD and P have different hardware classifications?

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,547
21,768
USA
Tesla going to make some decent change with $2,000 rolling in for AWD+ upgrades.

Why not charge $5,000 or $6,000 and make even MORE cash making AWD- up to 3P- levels?

My belief is that at one point, all AWD / 3P- cars were the same minus software.

There has clearly been a divergence just based on observation. 990/980 Motors probably means something. Perhaps cheaper to make but less performance threshold.

Having some spread where SOME AWD can go to 3P- and SOME AWD can go AWD+ is just a customer service and relation nightmare.

Since all of them can go AWD+ as the lowest common denominator, Tesla just goes with that.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,250
22,109
NC
Tesla going to make some decent change with $2,000 rolling in for AWD+ upgrades.

Why not charge $5,000 or $6,000 and make even MORE cash making AWD- up to 3P- levels?

My belief is that at one point, all AWD / 3P- cars were the same minus software.

There has clearly been a divergence just based on observation. 990/980 Motors probably means something. Perhaps cheaper to make but less performance threshold.

Yes to all of the above.

Pre-990- the AWD and P3D- were the same car powertrain wise.

Tesla parts catalog confirms this

Now (since 990) they aren't.

We don't know the exact differences of the 990, but simple logic informs this somewhat.

If the 990 were cheaper to make AND capable of full P performance- they'd use them in the P too. They don't.

If the 990 were NOT cheaper (regardless of power levels) they wouldn't use it in any model 3- they'd just keep using the 980.

So the only thing left is- 990 is cheaper and not capable of full P performance.


Thus instead of confusing customers and offering 2 different unlocks based on which/when AWD you got- they just went with the one all AWDs could handle regardless of when they were built and with which drive unit.


That's the occams razor version anyway
 

x-cimo

Member
Nov 13, 2018
66
44
Quebec, Canada
Still hoping that the AWD+ with 980 will do better than the AWD+ with 990 (unofficially), waiting on more results to see a trend..

So far the best I have seen is 3.46 with 980.
 
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sg021

Member
Feb 23, 2015
128
85
Philadelphia, PA
I'm very curious about this as well. It's unclear to me how much of an improvement this really is over the current state of the car given that they didn't update the 0-60 after the last power boost. If those of us with older AWD LR become unofficial P3- cars I will do it. If it only brings the car to just under 4 seconds then to me it isn't worth the current price.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,250
22,109
NC
I'm very curious about this as well. It's unclear to me how much of an improvement this really is over the current state of the car given that they didn't update the 0-60 after the last power boost. If those of us with older AWD LR become unofficial P3- cars I will do it. If it only brings the car to just under 4 seconds then to me it isn't worth the current price.


It's already under 4 seconds if you measure it the same way they measure the P.

Before this change:

P did 0-60 in 3 flat (using rollout)- and about 3.2 without rollout
AWD did 0-60 in 3.9 measured same way...and about 4.1 without rollout.


This $2000 update appears to knock roughly another 0.4 off that for the AWD.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,250
22,109
NC
We'll see once someone does some measurements, every Model 3 so far seems to beat out the advertised speeds, so maybe the upgrade will as well.

Already been done... ~3.7 without rollout, just under 3.5 with rollout... 11.8 1/4 mile.


Can someone tweet Elon for inclusion of Track Mode in the upgrade?


They didn't even want to include track mode for the P3D- (indeed it was months later they reluctantly added it, with a disclaimer about how it might not work as well) so I doubt you'd see it in this package.
 
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Guest

Member
Jul 9, 2015
179
125
Already been done... ~3.7 without rollout, just under 3.5 with rollout... 11.8 1/4 mile.





They didn't even want to include track mode for the P3D- (indeed it was months later they reluctantly added it, with a disclaimer about how it might not work as well) so I doubt you'd see it in this package.

Too bad. If I were tracking, I wouldn't want the brakes and stuff Tesla put on anyhow, so Track Mode would be very useful for someone who doesn't have a P car, but wants to do their own track build.

My money will remain on the sideline.
 

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,547
21,768
USA
Yes to all of the above.

Pre-990- the AWD and P3D- were the same car powertrain wise.

Tesla parts catalog confirms this

Now (since 990) they aren't.

We don't know the exact differences of the 990, but simple logic informs this somewhat.

If the 990 were cheaper to make AND capable of full P performance- they'd use them in the P too. They don't.

If the 990 were NOT cheaper (regardless of power levels) they wouldn't use it in any model 3- they'd just keep using the 980.

So the only thing left is- 990 is cheaper and not capable of full P performance.


Thus instead of confusing customers and offering 2 different unlocks based on which/when AWD you got- they just went with the one all AWDs could handle regardless of when they were built and with which drive unit.


That's the occams razor version anyway

So the followups would have to be:

How -much- cheaper could the 990 be to make compared to the 980?

For almost everything, a newer part is more capable AND cheaper to make.

If Tesla stuck with 980, they could have potentially software graded -everyone- to 3P- for much higher post sales revenue.

After ~2.5 years of Model 3 production now, you would think 990 would be the standard in all cars with no tradeoffs..?
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,250
22,109
NC
So the followups would have to be:

How -much- cheaper could the 990 be to make compared to the 980?

Cheap enough to make it worth doing ALL of the below:


Developing, testing, and certifying it in the first place.

Adding complexity and cost to parts ordering, supply chain, repair, and manufacturing by having a second rear DU part all along the way.

Locking out 990 LR AWD cars from being unlockable to full P (because if the 990 WAS capable of this the 980 wouldn't still be in use at all- the P would come with the 990 too).


More specific than that I don't think we have enough information to say.
 

boriszima

Member
Jul 12, 2018
679
335
Los Angeles
Seems reasonable why we see upgrade we do. Maybe Tesla did not keep track of 980/990. Maybe in future those with 980 can come to Tesla SC to confirm motor type and get more power update. But I wonder if Tesla’s actually knows which parts?
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,250
22,109
NC
Seems reasonable why we see upgrade we do. Maybe Tesla did not keep track of 980/990. Maybe in future those with 980 can come to Tesla SC to confirm motor type and get more power update. But I wonder if Tesla’s actually knows which parts?


Tesla 100% knows what motor went in what VIN.

Keeping track of that kind of stuff is manufacturing 101.

Each VIN has a BOM (build of materials) listing every part that went into it.

That's how you handle things like service bulletins and recalls if a specific part is found to be bad- you can easily pull up a list of every car that was built with that specific part.
 
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heems

Member
Jan 10, 2011
314
292
San Diego
With the awd+ the proof is basically delivered. Yet folks don’t want to see the fact in front of them. Awd cannot software upgrade to 3P stealth. There is ZERO reason from Tesla’s perspective to not do this when they can make cash for free basically. Not a line of code needs to be written - after all my car was upgraded from awd to 3P. And Tesla OS now handles post sale upgrades. Yet here we are with just awd+. The talk about “oh hard to know which vehicle” is bologna. Tesla knows exactly what car has what. They know it for AP capabilities, for regional differences, for MCU capabilities, etc.

Somehow the notion of an erroneous software downgrade (always possible) and subsequent correction (not always possible) has been flipped to proof upgrades are possible. That’s not rational thinking.

This is not a software issue. But keep putting the blind fold on and pretend physics can be overcome via software.
 
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