So is our 215 mile M3 actually 193 mile car?

[insaneoctane]

Killing time waiting for the final reveal (that's what I'm doing a lot of these days), I was reading through this sticky thread over in the Model S area:
What should my ideal charge percentage be?

If you read that thread, you come away with the clear impression that you should only charge your Tesla to 90% (or even lower) unless you are going on a range trip. A 100% charge is bad. So, then 90% of 215 mile range is 193 miles. Now the Model S generally has greater range, so maybe this is an easy thing to do on MS. But for a 215 mile M3, you would feel it more. Just wondering if the base battery pack M3 is really expected to charge to only 90% / 193 (or less) to preserve battery longevity? If so, kinda makes me want the 75 kWh battery more than I thought initially....

PS- For full disclosure and my perspective, I have a 110 mile round trip daily commute ~4 days / week. Range may be more of a concern to me than others.

 

[JeffK]

Killing time waiting for the final reveal (that's what I'm doing a lot of these days), I was reading through this sticky thread over in the Model S area:
What should my ideal charge percentage be?

If you read that thread, you come away with the clear impression that you should only charge your Tesla to 90% (or even lower) unless you are going on a range trip. A 100% charge is bad. So, then 90% of 215 mile range is 193 miles. Now the Model S generally has greater range, so maybe this is an easy thing to do on MS. But for a 215 mile M3, you would feel it more. Just wondering if the base battery pack M3 is really expected to charge to only 90% / 193 (or less) to preserve battery longevity? If so, kinda makes me want the 75 kWh battery more than I thought initially....

PS- For full disclosure and my perspective, I have a 110 mile round trip daily commute ~4 days / week. Range may be more of a concern to me than others.

When people want to drive a long distance they can charge to 100% there's nothing wrong with that. The vast majority of people do not drive the full range daily, so if you're not driving long distance then don't charge to 100%. It's a pretty simple concept and doesn't mean the car can't go the full range.

Your commute is more than most people, but even though you don't have a Model 3 you're already getting range anxiety. It's likely the range will be 240+ if they opt for a 60 kWh battery pack. It's plenty for your daily commute in Southern California (even at 80 or 90%).

 

[McRat]

You should be able to go over 110 miles at 90 mph if the EPA hwy rating is 193 in an EV.

 

[eSpiritIV]

Seems that if you have a 110mile round trip commute every day, a base M3 will be perfect for you even if it did get sub 200 miles on a charge. You would just charge up at night for a "full tank" every day. You can set the Tesla to stop charging at whatever point you want.

 

[TexasEV]

If you're able to charge at home overnight, range is irrelevant for most people except when you go on a trip. However with your 110 mile commute I do think you would be happier with a bigger battery. It will give you more flexibility if your plans change, you have a detour, it's raining, you drive fast, etc. Remember the initial range will degrade by a few percent. My early S60 had 208 mile rated range when new, similar to what you're talking about, and now 100% charge is 200 miles so 90% is 180 miles. With highway driving In Texas I typically need 120 miles rated range to go 100 miles.

Life happens. If you can afford a bigger battery, I would suggest it so you don't have to cut it so close every day.

 

[SageBrush]

So, then 90% of 215 mile range is 193 miles. Now the Model S generally has greater range, so maybe this is an easy thing to do on MS. But for a 215 mile M3, you would feel it more.

How would you feel it unless you come close to the limit ?

 

[JeffK]

Now the Model S generally has greater range

I missed this quote earlier...

For any given pack capacity, the Model 3 will have a greater range.

 

[GWord]

PS- For full disclosure and my perspective, I have a 110 mile round trip daily commute ~4 days / week. Range may be more of a concern to me than others.

If we make the assumption that the base battery will be the numbers you quoted, with a 220mi round trip burn each day I wouldn't be entertaining the base model. You are going to want a significant buffer to cover degradation and inclement weather/detours etc. A lot will depend on the type of driving your commute entails but I'd sure hate to purchase and then find out I was wrong...

 

[insaneoctane]

I missed this quote earlier...

For any given pack capacity, the Model 3 will have a greater range.

Agreed, but I think the MS starts at 75kWh now...that's what I meant, that the MS battery size is generally larger.

 

[McRat]

If we make the assumption that the base battery will be the numbers you quoted, with a 220mi round trip burn each day I wouldn't be entertaining the base model. You are going to want a significant buffer to cover degradation and inclement weather/detours etc. A lot will depend on the type of driving your commute entails but I'd sure hate to purchase and then find out I was wrong...

I read it as round trip.

If he said 110 miles each way, the correct path to take is to move or find a job closer to home.

 

[JeffK]

Agreed, but I think the MS starts at 75kWh now...that's what I meant, that the MS battery size is generally larger.

I'm honestly thinking the entire reason they got rid of the Model S 60 was because it would be the lowest range out of all the Model S and 3 versions. I think the base Model 3 is going to come in with a range slightly less than the Model S 75 and the Model 3 75 kWh will come in at a little less than the Model S 100 kWh with 300+ miles.

This way the Model S base and upgrade have slightly more range than the Model 3 base or upgrade as was promised in order to sell more Model S vehicles.

 

[SageBrush]

with a 220mi round trip burn each day

I thought he was saying a 110 mile a day drive on his long drive days.

I drive 90 miles on my long drive days to work and consider the Model 3 to be overkill for that route. Long trip driving using Superchargers is another matter, where the ~ 215 mile range is enough but not overkill. Honestly, I'm a lot more interested in charge rates for the base Model 3. I'm resigned to 60 kW but will happily take more.

 

[Reciprocity]

I'm honestly thinking the entire reason they got rid of the Model S 60 was because it would be the lowest range out of all the Model S and 3 versions. I think the base Model 3 is going to come in with a range slightly less than the Model S 75 and the Model 3 75 kWh will come in at a little less than the Model S 100 kWh with 300+ miles.

This way the Model S base and upgrade have slightly more range than the Model 3 base or upgrade as was promised in order to sell more Model S vehicles.

I doubt 3 75 will be much over 280 miles (I'm estimating 286) 3 75D should be just a hair shy of 300, and I think this is on purpose so that it doesn't look as good as S. The nice thing is that because it's lighter and less drag, you should be able to consistently get the rated range in traffic/city and on the freeway. I have a model X and it's heavy as F and more drag then model S, but nestled in behind pretty much any truck/van and I get closer to ideal range. I expect that the 3 will be much better with no lead car then the model X.

 

[insaneoctane]

...I have a 110 mile round trip daily commute

No need to double that number. It's 55 miles one-way. That's the first time I've quoted myself

 

[Ugliest1]

... If you read that thread, you come away with the clear impression that you should only charge your Tesla to 90% (or even lower) unless you are going on a range trip. A 100% charge is bad.

I'll just go ahead and add further to what @JeffK said and correct your statement: "A 100% charge is bad" ONLY IF YOU LEAVE IT AT 100% FOR HOURS AND HOURS. Absolutely no problem charging to 100% and driving off within an hour or two. Personally, I charge to 90% when I charge (about once a week), with an 85 Model S, and to 100% (timed so the charging ends just before we leave) whenever we need to for trips. After 3.5 years the battery has degraded about 4.5%-5% (so, instead of 425km / 264mi @100% when new, it now shows between 403km / 250mi and 407km / 253mi @100%). And it's been there for at least the past 1.5 years or so (no degradation the past 1.5 years).

If for whatever reason you have a very long drive and are worried about range, driving at 55-60mph will do wonders for your range (but... who wants to do that????!!!!!). My advice is to get the largest battery possible if you will be taking trips or have a long work commute (but a 100mi work commute is no problem for a 200mi rated car IMHO).

 

[JeffK]

I doubt 3 75 will be much over 280 miles (I'm estimating 286) 3 75D should be just a hair shy of 300, and I think this is on purpose so that it doesn't look as good as S. The nice thing is that because it's lighter and less drag, you should be able to consistently get the rated range in traffic/city and on the freeway. I have a model X and it's heavy as F and more drag then model S, but nestled in behind pretty much any truck/van and I get closer to ideal range. I expect that the 3 will be much better with no lead car then the model X.

280/75 = 3.73 mi/kWh so you're saying it'd be less efficient than a Chevy Bolt?

 

[insaneoctane]

So what about having the timer set such that it hits 95% or 100% approximately at the time in AM when I'll be leaving? How much worse is that than just going 90% or 85%. I'm sure it's somewhat grey...

 

[insaneoctane]

280/75 = 3.73 mi/kWh so you're saying it'd be less efficient than a Chevy Bolt?

I've got a thread showing how I'm estimating 282. The Bolt will possibly do better than the M3 in EPA rating because it doesn't allow the M3 to shine at freeway speeds. I think an M3 will do circles around the Bolt on the freeway.

 

[JeffK]

So what about having the timer set such that it hits 95% or 100% approximately at the time in AM when I'll be leaving? How much worse is that than just going 90% or 85%. I'm sure it's somewhat grey...

I say charge to 100% for the first few days and get a realistic picture of what you use with how you drive and you can make a more informed decision about what to charge it to.

 

[Ugliest1]

So what about having the timer set such that it hits 95% or 100% approximately at the time in AM when I'll be leaving? How much worse is that than just going 90% or 85%. I'm sure it's somewhat grey...

Not sure if you were replying to me... in my experience (and after reading 100's of TMC posts a couple of years ago from very learned people here), 95 or 100% timed for when you are leaving is not a problem. I suspect what you'll find is, 90% is no problem for the commute either.