So, is that it for AP1? Beta forever?

[Max*]

We AP2.0 folks don’t even get to see what cars there are in adjacent lanes...

I think the AP2 folks might need to see a doctor for that...

 

[jlewisthe3rd]

Can us owners of AP1 have any reasonable expectation of improvements to it when those improvements at best can only be incremental?

It's far more advantageous for Tesla to focus on AP2 improvements that use SW that they largely dictate. They spent about a year attempting to reach parity with AP1 on SW they control.

I think we have to accept that AP1 will still be better than AP2/AP2.5 in some ways, but we're largely locked into what we have. That's okay by me as the improvements I want have more to with navigation, and other things. Like the recent firmware upgrade that turns on the heated steering while if it was on when the car was used last.

I can't think of any low hanging fruit for AP1. In fact as soon as they announced AP2 I was hoping that Tesla would lock down AP1 as this was during a period we were losing more than we were gaining (as they were cracking down on abusers).

I wouldn't be envious of AP2 owners as they are going to be in the same boat soon. We're so far away from what it's actually going to take that we have no idea what the requirements are going to be.

Where what it takes is?
Can TACC slow down with 99.99 percentage accuracy for a stopped vehicle?
Can AP stay in the lane with 99.99 percentage on roads with really bad lines or no lines?
Does AP work in the rain on a reasonably poor day (not counting ridiculous storms)?
Does Side Monitoring actually work?
Can the rear camera sense the distance to the car behind it to make sure it can respond to a situation similar to how a driver might avoid being rear ended by not stopping too quickly.
Is the car capable of Level 4 or Level 5 autonomous driving?

Instead it's going to a constant "Are we there yet" question.

The simple answer with HW1/HW2/HW2.5 is a no. At the end of the day the sensors in HW2/HW2.5 don't allow for what I have listed. Sure they have more than what HW1 has. Sure that will translate into improvements, but only incremental.

Like I believe AP2 is better at identifying lines, and this is beneficial. But, it's not that's not enough to really motivate me to upgrade. If AP2/AP2.5 is capable of Level 3 driving that's a big enough differential that I would consider it.

I do expect to be somewhat jealous of AP2/AP2.5 owners for the next 6 months. Since I think they're finally going to start getting what they paid for with EAP.

So let them have their fun, and then we can have our fun with AP3.

I think there is plenty of low hanging fruit for AP1, but the reality is that AP1 is using the enemies/competitions hardware so from Tesla's perspective its not in their best interest invest heavily in improving it, especially when not improving it provides a greater incentive for them to sell new vehicles with their own hardware in place AND they aren't producing cars with AP1 in it anymore.

However, I think Tesla is fully aware that the camera & chip in AP1 cars it superior with their software than AP2 hardware, they have more time invested programming against it and the hardware by itself has seen lots of testing with Mobileye alone and is a result of their evolving efforts, so much more solid than AP2 which only has a limited time of real-world testing and using the fleet as alpha testers not even beta is all it has.

That said, sign recognition, auto-lane change, better blindspot detection, leveraging satnav to do on-ramp to off-ramp, are just a few.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Looking at potential AP1 improvements compared to potential AP2.x features, I break them into two categories

1. Features that are limited due to lack of AP2 hardware
2. Features that are limited due to the navigation system

A feature that would fall into category 1 would be autonomous lane change. AP1 hardware has no rearward camera visibility and a very limited ultrasonic range, so it will never be able to detect a quickly overtaking car in time to safely change lanes.

There are quite a few features that could be added in category 2 however. Following on-ramp and off-ramps would be one. With high precision mapping, there is no reason AP1 can't select the correct lane when exiting or lanes split. And knowing the geometry of the off ramp will allow a safe speed to be used.

From this perspective, I could also see stop light/stop sign detection being added at some point, although I suspect there is still a lot of database work and NN learning to be done before this will work on either AP1 or AP2.

However, I never see summon improving much (even though it was a promised AP1 feature...see my profile picture from April 2015). Unless AP1 has a highly detailed map of private parking areas, there is no way it will be able to remain on drivable surfaces sufficiently to implement much more than what we have now.

 

[barjohn]

I would love to see self parking and summons work for a more complex home garage/driveway scenario. I have a tight squeeze in the garage and it require a tight left turn to get into my garage. One way this could be addressed is to be able to lay down a sensor tape line that the car could follow. I would be fine with that if it could then self park and be summoned. Granted it wouldn't work for private/public garage spaces but it would be nice for home use. Another simple improvement would be to give us birdseye view like the Bolt has as that makes parking relatively easy. However, the Bolt has a front camera that is able to see much closer in front of the bumper. I don't think the S has this camera. A simple upgrade kit that would add a front grill camera would solve this problem.

 

[Need]

We AP2.0 folks don’t even get to see what cars there are in adjacent lanes...

It also doesn't seem to have the motorcycle or truck with EAP. I wonder if it detects motorcycle or saw it but think that you don't need to see it on the screen, like the cars in the adjacent lanes.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I've had my AP1 Model S since early 2015 and enjoyed the constant improvements to AP1 until right around the time that AP2 came out, then it pretty much stopped improving. Not that I'm complaining... it's certainly more useful than cruise control in many highway situations, but I sort of expected that lane keeping would continue to improve (e.g. better deal with cars changing lanes up ahead, better position itself in the center of the lane, offset appropriately for semi trucks, properly handle construction barriers, tight curves and stopped traffic) and that it would automatically take highway exits by now.

More than a year has passed since we've received any discernible updates to AP1, due presumably to all the focus on AP2 and FSD. Are we to expect that that's it for AP1 after all the hubbub about fleet learning and constant improvements? It seems to me that if there was any truth to that discussion, we would have a more robust, feature-rich system by now.

Be happy, at least you have a version of AP that mostly works.

 

[rpo]

My AP1 car likes to read the speed limit signs on frontage roads when driving on I-5 around Washington State. I'm glad it doesn't automatically change speeds from 70 to 20 and back. That would be a disaster.

It also reads every school speed limit sign regardless of whether it's currently in effect or not.

 

[Snowstorm]

Following on-ramp and off-ramps would be one. With high precision mapping, there is no reason AP1 can't select the correct lane when exiting or lanes split

That is going to be difficult if AP1 cannot automatically change lane due to lack of rear/side visibility. Even if it has a highly detailed map of highway and ramp geometry, going from on to off ramp will likely require some sort of lane change. If it cannot master lane changes, then there is very little it can do on that actual navigation side of things. It maybe possible for AP2, just maybe.

Here's my prediction:
Red light, stop sign detection -> Yes AP1, Yes AP2
Blind spot monitoring -> No AP1, likely AP2
On-off ramp navigation -> No AP1, maybe AP2
Auto overtake -> No AP1, maybe for AP2
Better summon -> No AP1, unlikely for AP2
FSD (Lvl 4 or 5) -> No AP1, No AP2

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

That is going to be difficult if AP1 cannot automatically change lane due to lack of rear/side visibility. Even if it has a highly detailed map of highway and ramp geometry, going from on to off ramp will likely require some sort of lane change. If it cannot master lane changes, then there is very little it can do on that actual navigation side of things. It maybe possible for AP2, just maybe.

Here's my prediction:
Red light, stop sign detection -> Yes AP1, Yes AP2
Blind spot monitoring -> No AP1, likely AP2
On-off ramp navigation -> No AP1, maybe AP2
Auto overtake -> No AP1, maybe for AP2
Better summon -> No AP1, unlikely for AP2
FSD (Lvl 4 or 5) -> No AP1, No AP2

Here is mine

DashCam Recording Capabilities -> No AP1, Yes AP2
Car2Car/Road2Car/Bike2Car Communication -> No AP1, No AP2, Yes AP3
Self Cleaning Cameras (or improved for bad weather) -> No AP1, No AP2, Yes AP3
Lidar -> No AP1, No AP2, Maybe for AP3
Side/Rear Radar -> No AP1, No AP2, Yes AP3
Auto Adjusting Speed for Speed Limit -> No AP1, Yes AP2
Pot-Hole Avoidance -> No AP1, No AP2, No AP3
Avoid the Ruts in the Road -> No AP1, No AP2, No AP3
Avoid Road Debris -> No AP1, No AP2, Yes AP3
Red light, stop sign detection + Stop Sign Assistance (tells you when its your turn to go) -> No AP1, Yes AP2
Blind spot monitoring Using Side Cameras + Ultrasonics -> No AP1, Yes AP2
Rear-End Crash Mitigation -> No AP1, No AP2, Yes AP3
On-off ramp navigation -> No AP1, Yes AP2
Auto overtake -> No AP1, Yes AP2 (part of EAP)
Smart summons -> No AP1, Yes AP2 (part of EAP)
Smart Self Parking -> No AP1, Limited AP2 (part of EAP), Yes AP3
Unofficial/Pretend FSD (Lvl 2 with really good AP) -> No AP1, Yes AP2
Official with regulatory approval FSD (Lvl 4 or 5) -> No AP1, No AP2, Sold as a Monthly Service with AP3 as regs will require monitoring (something Google/Uber/GM will push for)

 

[BerTX]

Here is mine

Auto Adjusting Speed for Speed Limit -> No AP1, Yes AP2

Just curious why you think this will be. AP2 cameras better at recognizing the signs?

My AP1 car would work fine for me if they would just turn it on. I was just wondering if you had some insight as to why it is not, and what will eventually be activated on AP2 cars that will make this viable?

 

[EV-lutioin]

Beta than nothing.

 

[sandpiper]

I've had my AP1 Model S since early 2015 and enjoyed the constant improvements to AP1 until right around the time that AP2 came out, then it pretty much stopped improving. Not that I'm complaining... it's certainly more useful than cruise control in many highway situations, but I sort of expected that lane keeping would continue to improve (e.g. better deal with cars changing lanes up ahead, better position itself in the center of the lane, offset appropriately for semi trucks, properly handle construction barriers, tight curves and stopped traffic) and that it would automatically take highway exits by now.

More than a year has passed since we've received any discernible updates to AP1, due presumably to all the focus on AP2 and FSD. Are we to expect that that's it for AP1 after all the hubbub about fleet learning and constant improvements? It seems to me that if there was any truth to that discussion, we would have a more robust, feature-rich system by now.

Yeah.... not going to happen. The fat lady has sung, left the stage, left the theater and is chowing down on a Big Mac combo at a late night McDonald's.

 

[The Duke]

"low hanging fruit"
Ability to set maximum speed as a % of speed limit rather than miles over. +15 in a 65 mph freeway works, +15 MPH in a 25 mph school zone does not but 20% works in both cases. Better yet, allow a cutoff speed limit where you do not go over the limit,

 

[dhanson865]

That is going to be difficult if AP1 cannot automatically change lane due to lack of rear/side visibility. Even if it has a highly detailed map of highway and ramp geometry, going from on to off ramp will likely require some sort of lane change. If it cannot master lane changes, then there is very little it can do on that actual navigation side of things. It maybe possible for AP2, just maybe.

You don't need rear/side visibility for exits that are right most lane to exit on right (or the mirror left most lane to exit on left). You would need it for multi lane exits not in the right most lane (or the mirrored left most lane).

When it knows the on/off ramp requires human interaction it can just beep and show the put hands on wheel icon. When it doesn't need that it can just do it.

 

[davidc18]

It would be nice to have some of the promised AP 1 features delivered but I don't see it happening. I think we have our final AP 1 feature set.

 

[Gwgan]

AP1 2018.4.5 maybe I Ihave not been in this exact situation before but I was quite surprised yesterday when my car smoothly followed the (blue) lead car across the center line to pass around a large truck parked on the side of a two lane road with its left wheels well into my lane. I was about to disengage to manage the pass when AP started to head left. Very smooth.
(Yes, this was not a divided highway but I use AP here often without incident and would not expect it to manage this kind of a situation)

 

[Pruitt]

At this point I'm happy enough with my AP1 that my biggest wish is that they leave it alone!

 

[Snowstorm]

AP1 2018.4.5 maybe I Ihave not been in this exact situation before but I was quite surprised yesterday when my car smoothly followed the (blue) lead car across the center line to pass around a large truck parked on the side of a two lane road with its left wheels well into my lane. I was about to disengage to manage the pass when AP started to head left. Very smooth.
(Yes, this was not a divided highway but I use AP here often without incident and would not expect it to manage this kind of a situation)

Wow, you are very grave to let ap try to do that for you.

 

[headcase]

At this point I'm happy enough with my AP1 that my biggest wish is that they leave it alone!

Yeah, to your point: when I felt like some of the updates a few months ago were making my AP1 car feel more like a nervous AP2 car, I was like "Please leave my AP1 software alone... AP1 ain't broken, so don't fix it." Fortunately, more recent updates brought AP1 back to its steady-as-it-goes solid performance.

 

[ReversePolarity]

I've had my AP1 Model S since early 2015 and enjoyed the constant improvements to AP1 until right around the time that AP2 came out, then it pretty much stopped improving.

Don't feel bad, I think right up to this point, I have more confidence on AP1 over AP2. After having driven on the same 20 mile commute for 2 years on AP1, switching over to AP2 car I've seen way more close calls on these same roads than I can care for. Even though AP2 does have some noticeable improvements (such as smoother deceleration/braking due to presumably better depth perception on multiple cameras), it still has issues keeping lanes... steering wheel jerks left and right in certain areas, sometimes unexplained brake checking even tho nobody in front of the car, or drifting into next lane (clearly marked lines) and then warning me to take over immediately...

Somehow I think the software guys at Tesla have their hands full.. first trying to catch up on AP2, now they've got to deal with the AP hardware/software on the M3. Similar in many ways, but also different in many ways.