So sick of the negativity

[N5329K]

There's a difference between an actual early adopter and having an early adopter mentality. Unlike a phone, where the price of entry is within most people's grasp, a Tesla is not. So you have early adopters who can afford a Roadster. But then you have adopters who get a 3 and can't technically be called "early", but they might be just as forgiving as an early adopter, knowing that a new mishmash of technology is going to take some time to get right. Not all 3 adopters will have this mentality, but it's false to assume that because the price point is moving toward mass market that you don't have "early adopters" anymore. I'd venture to say that there's still a lot of people with the early adopter mentality out there who simply didn't have the means to get in earlier. Count me in as one.

I think you're right. There are still early adopters being drawn to Model 3 who are not current owners. I met quite a few Prius folks signing up for their first real EV who were every bit as enthusiastic as any Roadster owner. That said, early adopters are early adopters. By definition a pretty small portion of a product's lifetime bell curve. And they, like the early early adopters, will be more forgiving of flaws of all kinds than those who are trying their first EV family car, and are hoping for the best.
It's Tesla's challenge to give that to them, to the extent possible.
Robin

 

[Warrentt]

This is a good example of what I meant by online discussions not matching real-life experience. My Roadster replaced a used 60mpg Honda Insight as my daily transportation, and I needed it to start every morning for the 7 years I owned it because I didn't have an extra car. About 95 of the ~100 Roadster owners I have met has used it as a daily driver. Many of those conversations were years ago, and now that there are more alternatives a higher percentage of those owners may own a car like an S and keep the Roadster for weekends - but current use does not affect their concerns when they bought it.

I have owned a wide variety of types of vehicles over the years, and my need for dependable transportation has not changed based on what I am driving. The price of the Roadster was different than the price of the Insight, but I don't see why anybody I would assume I suddenly didn't care about standard car-owner issues just because I bought a more expensive car.

My point is that majority of roadster owner using it as the main mode of transportation (aka daily driver) would be significantly less compare to Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. Would you agree with me on that? So you meet or know 100 owners, would you say that is the majority owners of ALL roadster or that is your own personal experience. Do you know how many Toyota Camry or Honda Accord was sold over the last 20 years? I wouldn’t even start compare the number between those car. It is a luxury vehicle and it is still is. How many are able to afford roadster as daily driver mode of transportation. It is not a vehicle for the mass doesn’t matter how you slice it.

Is the model 3 competition is in this area/category or Elon goal was to bring mass market model to reality. Those populations are not early adopters or able to be more lenient on issues or mishap vs roadster owners. That is my point.

You are able to afford one and use one as daily mode of transportation doesn’t meant millions people out there could.

 

[Warrentt]

I think the point was that the Roadster forum and community, for whatever reasons, are largely free of the negativity that's the subject of this thread. So if you get tired of it, go read some of the Roadster forums a bit (and I do sometimes). And if you can, bring that helpfulness and sense of community to the parts of the forums that you frequent.

I disagree with the assertion that higher-volume or "mass market" Teslas are incompatible with community building. Remember that in a sense, we're all still early adopters, just not as early as the people who bought the Roadsters back in the day.

Bruce.

(Not a Roadster owner, but I've been around a few Roadsters and their owners.)

I’m not always negative toward Tesla but I will point out any fact or truth. I’m sorry but I can’t be helpful or provide any insight because I’m still waiting for my car 2+ years now and counting. Maybe if I’m lucky then i will get it in 7-9 months.

 

[Electroman]

Oh if only that were true. There's always a way to put a negative spin on things. Once the run rate is high, it will be about negative margins. And SolarCity. And taking on more than they can chew (Y, semi, roadsterv2, etc). They should have made a crossover first. S and X sales are getting cannibalized. The iPace, MissionE, GM Zolt will be the next Tesla killer. Cobalt cliff.

Hey I'm pretty good at this. I can be a short too!

You are spot on.

This company will go bankrupt before they make a single 'S'
They will never make an X.
They will never make more than 10k 'X' per year
No one has signed up for partnership with Tesla for Gigafactory
Gigafactory will never be built; Nevada has been scammed
The prototype 3 is fake; the one on display has no battery, so it has to be fake
M3 will never see the light of production
No one will buy M3 as it is too expensive and competition will kill it. Bolt, Bolt, Bolt.
All the preorders will dry out before they even make one M3
They will never get to 2500 a week
They will never get to 5000 a week
They will never be profitable, the more they make the more they lose
Competition will eat 'Y' for breakfast and lunch. I-Pace I-Pace I-Pace

 

[Saimaannorppa]

Short investors are obvious Tesla bashers. But think about the whole auto industry.

Companies who have no moral problem in e.g. cheating authorities and customers on emissions, using people as test subjects for exhaust fumes, creating a cartel on spare parts, killing EV programs just because, skipping safety recalls on cost-benefit analysis etc.

Now facing threat of disruption, which means for them huge write offs on existing IPR and production capabilities. Being late for years on needed investments.

Do you think they would be ready to play a bit dirty?

 

[xav-]

There are some posters who are so relentlessly negative about everything Tesla that I wonder just what the heck they're doing on this board. If they don't like the product, then don't buy one, and leave the rest of us alone.

What if they have nothing else to do though?

 

[vinnie97]

The negativity can be daunting. The Seeking Alpha articles are funny how negative they try to be - t

The Jalopnik articles/comments can give SA a run for its money.

 

[nvx1977]

The Jalopnik articles/comments can give SA a run for its money.

It's pretty much just Ryan Felton.

 

[John Lamoureux]

Oh if only that were true. There's always a way to put a negative spin on things. Once the run rate is high, it will be about negative margins. And SolarCity. And taking on more than they can chew (Y, semi, roadsterv2, etc). They should have made a crossover first. S and X sales are getting cannibalized. The iPace, MissionE, GM Zolt will be the next Tesla killer. Cobalt cliff.

Hey I'm pretty good at this. I can be a short too!

Paid shill! Paid shill!

 

[FROZENinNY]

I do not post or reply often but wanted to say that my M3 after1500 miles has exceeded my expectations. After using my MS for a few years as an reliable daily driver, my M3 VIN 0068xx has already proven itself under all conditions here in harsh upstate NY. Most of the flaws or criticism is not warranted and it seems blown out of proportion. The M3 is now my daily driver and at my age I have tried about every car out there over the last 48 years and this car has given me a comfort level I have never experienced. Nobodys fanboy here, just sharing my experience. Got a problem? Then I find that making a phone call or reading the manual will solve a vast majority of issues. Running to the forums and posting nonsense solves very little other than feeding resentments. Drive the car. Sold my MS as I cannot afford two Teslas.

 

[bonnie]

An often missed treasure in this forum is the Roadster section. Roadster owners were the original Tesla enthusiasts -- they took the leap spending more than most will on an S or an X, with no charging network (except the ones they built, esp on the West coast) - the true definition of 'early adopters'.

And while you'll find complaints here & there, the majority of original Roadster owners spend their time helping each other. You won't find the skewed negativity, just a bunch of good people who love the tech. And I'm pleased to say I count many as friends.

Edit: Oh! And none of the drama! It's remarkably drama-free.

Roadster is a niche and luxury model. You don’t have that safety and willingness if you trying to bring a model supposedly for a mass market for family transportation. People use this car as daily driver and transportation vehicles not as a weekend toy or extra money to throw at 50k car to see if it would not have any issues.

When people buy Camry or accord, they wouldn’t expect to see if they car would turn on or not drive when they wake up in the morning.

This is a good example of what I meant by online discussions not matching real-life experience. My Roadster replaced a used 60mpg Honda Insight as my daily transportation, and I needed it to start every morning for the 7 years I owned it because I didn't have an extra car. About 95 of the ~100 Roadster owners I have met has used it as a daily driver. Many of those conversations were years ago, and now that there are more alternatives a higher percentage of those owners may own a car like an S and keep the Roadster for weekends - but current use does not affect their concerns when they bought it.

I have owned a wide variety of types of vehicles over the years, and my need for dependable transportation has not changed based on what I am driving. The price of the Roadster was different than the price of the Insight, but I don't see why anybody I would assume I suddenly didn't care about standard car-owner issues just because I bought a more expensive car.

My point is that majority of roadster owner using it as the main mode of transportation (aka daily driver) would be significantly less compare to Toyota Camry or Honda Accord. Would you agree with me on that? So you meet or know 100 owners, would you say that is the majority owners of ALL roadster or that is your own personal experience. Do you know how many Toyota Camry or Honda Accord was sold over the last 20 years? I wouldn’t even start compare the number between those car. It is a luxury vehicle and it is still is. How many are able to afford roadster as daily driver mode of transportation. It is not a vehicle for the mass doesn’t matter how you slice it.

Is the model 3 competition is in this area/category or Elon goal was to bring mass market model to reality. Those populations are not early adopters or able to be more lenient on issues or mishap vs roadster owners. That is my point.

You are able to afford one and use one as daily mode of transportation doesn’t meant millions people out there could.

I think the point was that the Roadster forum and community, for whatever reasons, are largely free of the negativity that's the subject of this thread. So if you get tired of it, go read some of the Roadster forums a bit (and I do sometimes). And if you can, bring that helpfulness and sense of community to the parts of the forums that you frequent.

I disagree with the assertion that higher-volume or "mass market" Teslas are incompatible with community building. Remember that in a sense, we're all still early adopters, just not as early as the people who bought the Roadsters back in the day.

Bruce.

(Not a Roadster owner, but I've been around a few Roadsters and their owners.)

I’m not always negative toward Tesla but I will point out any fact or truth. I’m sorry but I can’t be helpful or provide any insight because I’m still waiting for my car 2+ years now and counting. Maybe if I’m lucky then i will get it in 7-9 months.

The point being made was that I posted about a great group of owners on this forum - and then it was used as a platform to talk about another pet peeve that had nothing to do with my post. I didn't post about it being a main mode of transportation (though it is for many), I didn't post about how many vs. Toyota Camry, I didn't post about mass market, I didn't post about cost vs who could afford one or not. (And really, it's not a luxury vehicle. Most sport cars are not. You've never sat in one , but it's cramped for two people (especially if you decide to use the sole cup holder), it's too noisy to hold a phone call, it uses a key(!!), it has a seriously small display screen, it is impossible for some to get out of without help, manual steering (appropriate, but not for a luxury car), the seats don't adjust much, heating is substandard, cooling doesn't work on really hot days because it needs to cool the battery - no def not a luxury car. But Roadsters have soul.)

I posted about a great group of people on the forum, where there is a remarkable lack of drama & people willing to help each other. And somehow you took that as something where you needed to point out some fact or truth. I understand that as a population, Roadster owners are a much higher percentage of early adopters. That was not my point. Bmah had a great point, so I'll repeat it here (and one that has nothing to do with being an early adopter or ability to afford a car): "I disagree with the assertion that higher-volume or "mass market" Teslas are incompatible with community building. Remember that in a sense, we're all still early adopters, just not as early as the people who bought the Roadsters back in the day."

The Roadster area of this forum is a great community, free of the negativity. That's not a slam at you.

 

[Msjulie]

Roadster is a niche and luxury model.

Let me just say this - niche perhaps, luxury - nope!

My 3 is now an 'early' production version, in very low 4xxx and it had a couple cosmetic issues but in general has been what I expected. I'l admit to being on the fan-girl side of the spectrum but realistic about the challenges ahead.

There is literally no other American car I would even consider and that says tons - especially if you knew me and my less than complimentary opinion of nearly anything American built in the last couple decades...

 

[sitter_k]

Op, you should check out the model x forum....

 

[T34ME]

I’m not always negative toward Tesla but I will point out any fact or truth. I’m sorry but I can’t be helpful or provide any insight because I’m still waiting for my car 2+ years now and counting. Maybe if I’m lucky then i will get it in 7-9 months.

"No model 3 for you!" (Seinfeld)

 

[dc_h]

Tesla is not the most shorted stock company. Please do some research before throwing out statistic as fact.

Stock have 70% float short (AAOI) would be on that list and Tesla is under 25%.

About 11 billion is short positions in Tesla. AAPL briefly took the lead last few weeks, but tsla is again the most shorted stock.

S3 Partners on Twitter

Please don’t diss without doing your own research.

 

[SageBrush]

About 11 billion is short positions in Tesla.

Don't you have to put that number into context by considering the value of the company, or at least the stockholder value ?

 

[Ulmo]

Everywhere you look and everywhere you hear so much negativity about Tesla. Seems like everyone is predicting it’s demise or whining about a lack of a feature. I’m going on the record to say I just got my model 3 yesterday and so far I love EVERYTHING about it. Panel gaps? Nope! Paint defects? Nope! Scratches on the center console? Nope! Problems with phone as a key? Nope! works Everytime.
That’s the problem with forums such as these they bring out the outliers, the few with unusual problems or the trolls. Well I’m hear to say that the model 3 I got was everything I want and more.

Hey, why are you picking apart the Model 3? Just enjoy the car, man.

 

[ChadS]

[...]How many are able to afford roadster as daily driver mode of transportation. It is not a vehicle for the mass doesn’t matter how you slice it.

Is the model 3 competition is in this area/category or Elon goal was to bring mass market model to reality. Those populations are not early adopters or able to be more lenient on issues or mishap vs roadster owners. That is my point.

You are able to afford one and use one as daily mode of transportation doesn’t meant millions people out there could.

I agree the Roadster was not a mass market car; in fact I made no claims along those lines. But whether it's mass-market or not does not affect whether owners care about whether it starts or not; just as it being more expensive does not make owners suddenly not care if it started.

That's the part of your message I took exception to. Roadster owners want their cars to start in the morning too.

 

[Warrentt]

About 11 billion is short positions in Tesla. AAPL briefly took the lead last few weeks, but tsla is again the most shorted stock.

S3 Partners on Twitter

Please don’t diss without doing your own research.

Which part of my statement is not true. One metric for the amount of money being shorted on TSLA doesn’t equal to true for all metric. All you do is quoting some text and regurgitate doesn’t meant you know as the only sole fact about Tesla stock.

I made money both on long and short on TSLA. Do you know what market cap and float being short is.

 

[cpa]

But then you have adopters who get a 3 and can't technically be called "early", but they might be just as forgiving as an early adopter, knowing that a new mishmash of technology is going to take some time to get right. Not all 3 adopters will have this mentality,

I think this is a brilliant sentiment. Perhaps it is my age (65) or my profession, but those of us who do not understand tech, do not understand why things do not work as intended. I would be out of business (and perhaps have my license revoked) if my work product were like much of tech (including Tesla) because things did not work properly. In dealing with both hardware and software companies over the years both personally and through my clients, I have come away with the feeling that the product works "well enough" and that there is a workaround for those times when it does not. It seems that the professionals in the tech industry are pursuing the next big project before the current project is wrapped up to the satisfaction of the customer. A lot of people, including me, do not understand this industry standard.

To me this is difficult to explain to the ordinary people who want to embrace this new mode of transportation but who do not understand the inherent differences in the standards for acceptable tech products versus standards for acceptable products in other industries. Contrary to what a lot of you and certainly Tesla may think there are a lot of people in this subset of customers.

Tesla makes matters more difficult for themselves because their communication sucks. Phone calls go to voice mail and frequently are not returned. Emails go unanswered. (We are still waiting for our license plates for our 3 that was purchased January 13, despite two emails and a call.)

Word-of-mouth is the best advertising. It is axiomatic that if word-of-mouth among those who are ignorant or unforgiving is negative, sales will suffer until Tesla makes it a priority to make the necessary corrections and improvements to quash the perceptions of a substandard product as compared to its competitors. Perception is reality, after all.