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So this is it (first time in a Model S)

Discussion in 'Model S' started by AustinPowers, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    Right, I am just back from Tesla Frankfurt, where I had my first hands-on meeting with the Model S. It was the plain white car (P85) that was featured a while back on several German websites and car magazines (with Munich registration licence plates), actually not a real Euro-Model S, but still.

    Great experience, even if it was just looking at the car and its features, sitting in the driver seat, trying out the center screen, playing around a bit with the controls etc.
    What I noticed:
    - the lower chrome window frame bit on the driver door was severely misaligned in comparison to the rear door (but with it being one of the first test vehicles the fact doesn't really bother me)
    - the "seat post wear" was there but very slightly, even though the car still had the soft leather material in that area
    - the trunk had the "pre update" lighting, which meant you really couldn't see the end of the trunk (we were in an underground parking garage)
    - the frunk was way larger than what I would have expected from the pictures I had seen before
    - the open space where the center console would be seemed much smaller than what I would have expected
    - headroom and placement of the center screen (i.e. how my knee leaned against it) was better than what I thought it would be

    Overall, only two things (apart from the price) that I really don't like: the non power-folding side mirrors (because the width of the car IS enormous), and the bad lighting in the trunk (but I hope that has been remedied by now).

    I can't wait for my test drive, which will be on 4 Sept. :smile:
     
  2. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    Mr. Powers,

    I think overall your complaints are fairly trivial - and what I tell everyone who sees my car and is wowed by the door handles, non-ICE propulsion, 17" display, etc is that the RIDE IS THE BEST PART. Ignore everything else, it is incredible. So hopefully you'll have that feeling too after your test drive.

    Are you aware how much wider the Model S is compared to a BMW 7-series? I think the folding mirrors will be coming, it is just a matter of "when".

    /Ed
     
  3. TokyoRush

    TokyoRush Member

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    Total non-sequiter but I can't help but read EdA's " Mr. Powers" as if I was Dr. Evil.... :tongue:
     
  4. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    Thank you for the report. I have test drove the car twice (in January and in May). The second drive was a much better car (later build). So I am certain Tesla has used the time to improve build quality.

    Weren't you anxious to drive sooner than Sept 4? I called the store and setup an appointment for a test drive within 1-2 days. They were very nice and made it fit my shedule.
     
  5. raymond

    raymond Member

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    To all German readers: Could you give the non-Germans a German view on the Model S? My theory is that Germany will probably be the most difficult country to sell the Model S, but perhaps I'm very much mistaken.

    The Autobahn at 200kph / 125mph is not the best of circumstances for a Model S...
     
  6. Right_Said_Fred

    Right_Said_Fred Model S - Sig. 283 EU

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    I constantly see German forum members airing their doubts whether the Model S is suitable for Germany, because it can't go 200 kph for longer distances. Somehow I think this requirement is overblown. If you are really someone who is constantly trying to drive 200 kph for as long as possible for longer distances, then this is probably not the car for you. But how many Germans still drive like that?

    I've been driving on German roads for 25 years and the number of speeders in that time period has dropped spectacularly. That has to do with more and more highways having speed limits, but somehow I also believe less people feel the need to drive so fast (which can be very stressful, if only for how other, slower drivers behave). I cannot believe that more than 5% of drivers likes to drive faster than 180 kph, and 10% faster than 150 kph. And although politicians are still afraid to touch the subject, it's my conviction - shared by some of my German friends- that the days of unlimited speeding are numbered.
     
  7. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    #7 AustinPowers, Jun 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
    I know my two main "misgivings" (I wouldn't really call them complaints) about the Model S are nothing to really stop one from buying the thing, and I'm sure the test-drive will convince me even more that I should get a Model S sooner or later.

    About the width, I just looked up the measurements:

    BMW 7-series: width overall 2,142 mm
    Model S: width overall 2,187 mm

    So the Model S is about 45 mm wider (a little less than two inches), which is quite a bit without power folding mirrors. Remember, if I had a Model S at the moment, I would have to get out of the car twice every day to get in and out of our garage - as the door is a little wider than 2,187 mm but too little for comfort. I wouldn't dare driving a Model S (or a 7-series for that matter) into our garage with mirrors unfolded.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The thing is, at the moment people who have reservations, have ordered or own roadsters are preferred for test-drives. As I am in neither of those categories, I didn't get a priority A appointment. But that doesn't bother me. I have waited for years to experience the car. Until a few months ago I didn't even think you could get a test drive without having a reservation at all. So a few more weeks won't make me cry - they'll rather enhance the excitement and "Vorfreude" ;-)
    Especially as I was told I was going to be driving a P85.

    - - - Updated - - -

    While I don't think a general speed limit will come anytime soon, I agree on your other points. I myself like the experience of driving very fast, but not for long distances as it is - as you said - quite stressfull. And on most Autobahns, the traffic is too heavy most of the time anyway, especially with all those freight trucks during the week. Only sunday is a day where it is nice to drive on the Autobahn (at least those with three lanes in each direction).

    I think the Model S is a great car - but I share the sentiment that it will have a hard time in the German market.
    For one thing, American cars have a very bad image here - mainly due to the fact that a lot of them really are crap and fail long distance reliability tests on a regular basis. Chevrolet is a prime example. Then there is the bad image because of the way GM is treating its European Opel and Vauxhall brands.
    The image of shoddy build quality and missing refinement / tech is also quite predominant in the minds of us perfectionist Germans.

    The only way that American cars are sold here at the moment is by price - i.e. they have to be really cheap in order to sell at all.
    The Model S might be something very different than every other American car. But to experience this you would have to buy and then own one for quite some time first. I'm not sure many Germans will take that chance.
    And of course it is an EV, meaning it will appeal to people who care about the environment. Such people often buy small, affordable cars with low fuel consumption. People in that price range normally wouldn't buy cars as large and expensive as a Model S.

    And if they do - and are willing to spend such a large amount of money on a car, they expect certain high tech options and basics the Model S just doesn't offer (lighted vanity mirrors, grab handles, coat hooks, fold-down rear seat armrest, sport-seats, adjustable headrests, storage facilities in doors/behind front seats/in the center console etc., power-folding mirrors, various assistants, LED headlights, ...)

    Perhaps Gen III will be the car that Tesla can sell with great success in Germany. There's a huge market for cars in that size category (like 3-series, A4, C-class, Mondeo, Passat et al). I am actually quite curious to see how the Model S will do in Germany, once the numbers are out after the first years of sales.
     
  8. Blvr888

    Blvr888 Member

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    AustinPowers,

    this is quite a wise decission not to rush for a test drive (the mistake I did). Otherwise you will probably spent a lot of time and energy agonising how to get this car ASAP :smile:

    - - - Updated - - -

    raymond,

    realistically, even in Germany, one can only drive at 200kmh for few short time slots unless you drive at 2am or on early Sunday morning :smile:
     
  9. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    The fall is never higher than when you start from a lofty position.

    I am really going to enjoy watching all those perfectionist Germans (many of whom I admire) "fall" as they come to understand Model S. We Americans are less discerning and a little more likely to be free with such decisions. Watching the Tesla Grin appear on German after German is going to be a wonderful sight indeed. Everything you say about amenities, greens and the like is spot on and NONE of it is going to matter. That is my prediction. The more you understand core mechanical zen, the harder you fall.
     
  10. agentsmith1612

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    #10 agentsmith1612, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
    I drove the Tesla in Duesseldorf - Germany last time, only for 30 min, the car is perfect in all cases, but I have only two concerns, that have probly to do with the second seat row.

    - Head room is to less, I can't sit in the second row for a long trip my head touchs all the time the roof and I am (only) 1,82 m (5'12") hight
    - The hear rest in the second row is horrible, too. The head rest was not on my head it was in my neck. If I sat there while a rear accident would happen I would be dead.

    Is there any fix in plan, I know first one can not fixed so fast, this would be something that I could accept but second one ?
     
  11. Blvr888

    Blvr888 Member

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    So far there is just a hand-full of people in Germany who have heard about Model S and even less who have actually seen the car. Just give us a year or so and Germany could be easily no. 2 market for TSLA.

    I remember (older) people sniffing at you, if you used your mobile in public 10 years ago but now all of them have one...
     
  12. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    I'm waiting for the comments about the driveline after Germans have had it in their hands for a while. The seamless integration of drive to regen and the linearity of both is not to be imagined.

    I'm also waiting for that epiphany that is "they should all be like this; ICE makes no sense".
     
  13. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    #13 AustinPowers, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
    While I agree that after sitting in the Model S, some of my negative expectations were overcome by the experience, others were not.
    For a start, the touch screen reacted great, something I was concerned about when thinking about how "sluggish" or erratic certain smartphones or tablets behave. Nevertheless, when you are used to do certain things by pushing just one button in a regular car, and here you have to navigate through a menu first, that doesn't seem either smart or easy to use. Make no mistake, many dislike BMW's iDrive and the equivalent from Audi/Merc as well for the same reason. Having experienced the 17-inch screen now myself I can say it is a nice gadget but nothing to make me go "wow, I have to have that".
    Same with many other things. The Model S is "just" a nice and eco-friendly car (albeit an expensive one) - but nothing more.

    I think the main selling points (pros) for the Model S will be the performance, the huge cargo capacity, the looks, and the fact that it doesn't need gas. The main cons will be the exterior size, the price tag, and the missing tech / amenities people in that price range are used to.

    It's not so much about learning / understanding a philosophy - it's just a car after all. Most people don't buy cars because of some philosophy, but because they are either cheap/good value for money, beautiful to look at, practical, fun to drive - or some of these combined.
    And Germans in particular buy cars especially for their tech, their practicality, their perfection - and, above all, to impress the neighbours (not that many would admit that) :wink:

    Perhaps Americans react especially positive to the Model S because it is a real American car - and if there is one thing I admire about Americans it is their stand on patriotism (which is not very common here - if you show your patriotism here like you do in America, people react suspicious because "patriotic" is mainly associated with right wing parties. A German problem) At least during big sport events like the Soccer World Cup, you can show your flag - best attached to your car... :smile:
     
  14. Volker.Berlin

    Volker.Berlin Member

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    I'm not worried at all. Germany may be a tough market in the beginning for all the reasons mentioned but I have no doubt that Tesla will be a huge success over here in the long run. I think it's fair to say that, on average, Germans love tech, love quality, appreciate high-end cars and are used to spending a significant fraction of their income on them, and are relatively environment-aware.

    On top, gas prices in Germany are high, which I think is one of the reasons why people in general are travelling far slower on the Autobahn in recent years than they used to years ago.

    I'm really looking forward to showing off my Model S to all those A6, E class, 5 series followers and see them cringe when they realize that they cannot buy a car like that from their preferred manufacturer. From that point forward, German car manufacturers will finally take alt fuel seriously (and BMW already has a head start IMO).
     
  15. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    Spoken like a true German and from a very lofty position. I am really going to enjoy watching you get to know your MS.

    Thus the source of the enjoyment to come. You will really "get" MS and have a full appreciation for what they did right.

    Nope, not at all. There are some that do but I think you will find the majority of the positive response to MS is that it is done right. I know Consumer Reports, Yahoo, Car and Driver, Motor Trend and the like all mention the American car thing but that is not why they give it such rave reviews. Again, you will understand in time. I could be wrong but I suspect we will get a Tesla Grin on your face yet.

    What I am really looking forward to is what Germany as a whole does with the MS concept. If it is anything like solar (putting a cost structure in place that makes it a no brainer for people to put panels on their property), you guys may do more for EVs then anyone to date.
     
  16. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    True.

    Gas prices are high here (due to government intervention). But so are utility prices. And once again it's the government rules that account for most of it. I'm paying close to 0,30 € (ca. 40 US cent) per kWh, only less than 0,06 € of that is the electricity as it is traded at the market.
     
  17. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    About the Tesla Grin, I am sure I will be wearing that after my P85 test-drive on 4 Sept.

    About the incentives like for solar, that's the sad part: right now, people that don't have solar on their property come to realize that the huge increases in electricity prices we are seeing at the moment are due to the fact that solar is still so heavily susidized. Politicians on the other hand - having noticed the potentially dangerous effect the above realization of so many people can have on the outcome of the general election we have later this year - have started to cut the subsidies considerably, thus making it more and more uneconomical to put solar on your property.
    Same goes for EV's: on the one hand the government wants to have 2 million EV's on German roads by 2020, on the other hand they don't want to hand out incentives. So no EV-paradise like in Norway here.

    Perhaps that's another reason for some of the sad events concerning EV tech that are happening right now such as
    - Daimler/Evonik thinking about selling their before much-hyped Li-tec battery plant in Saxonia
    - Audi withdrawing from their planned e-tron vehicles like the A3 e-tron
    - likewise VW withdrawing their E-Golf plans in the foreseeable future

    Sad really. All the more reason I am hoping for a great Tesla Gen III that might grace my garage in a few years. (With the current price increases for the Model S on the horizon, it is ever more unlikely I will be able to afford one).
     
  18. Blvr888

    Blvr888 Member

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    Tesla recently reduced the reservation payment from €4,000 to €2,000 for German reservations. I would seriously consider to put in a reservation to have a test drive earlier (you can cancell the reservation anytime thereafter). However, it's a bit of a dangerous strategy as real challenge than is not to buy the car...
     
  19. ChrisgG

    ChrisgG Member

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    there are many threads about 'why I buy a tesla' on here and I allways thought there are a lot of people who play the patriot card and say because it's an all american car and it again brings america to the top of the car business.

    Another often mentioned reason is that it may stop wars like in Irak.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm not from Germany but still in the german speaking region, here my 5ct of the main concerns of people around here. I'm a typical Tesla fanboy so everyone wich spoke to me in the last 4 years probably had to talk about Tesla for a time ;). Tesla being an american car company is was never a concern for them, at least not in the term that american cars are bad.

    The number one concern by far is range, everyone goes into holidays with the famely by car and charging it at some medicore charcher will probably double the trip length. Superchargers throu europe will probably take a lot longer to pop up.

    After that it's of corse the price. virtually noone I know spend so much money on a car, and it doesn't matter that the price is in line with the other luxury cars. No matter how expensive the the gas price will get. A cheap economical car will always be less than half the price of a

    After that the whole service model doesn't look to appealing. The service center is an houre away, if the car breaks down who pays the the truck? Even regular service seems to be a hassle. Sure in theory they should come and get it and bring you another tesla.. But Customer service wasn't so sure as in 'when' that service will be available in europe. And we also read that even in the US that didn't always worked well so far as they are selling their demo cars... why they do that? do they really need the money so desperately?

    Wich leads to the last point. Tesla is a young company and they don't have much room for failure. They do all by themself, so if they fail everything will collapse. No more service, no more superchargers, no more swap stations. No more parts (no service center seem to have a stop of those and order them if needed... wich sounds reaaaly bad for us european guys)

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    Summary

    so I too believe by the time Tesla starts with the real mass production with the Gen III many problems will be dealt with. The car is cheaper, the infrastructure better, Tesla has proofen that they'll stay... To buy it right now you really have to be into the car for one reason or another.
     
  20. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #20 SwedishAdvocate, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    The first time I saw Tesla had changed the design of the headrests in the backseat from the previous adjustable design to the current fixed, I had the same concern. This very issue – the rear seat whiplash protection – was actually what made me (wisely or unwisely...) post my very first post on this forum. And that was post #1 in this thread here:

    Rear seat whiplash protection?

    At that time – as far as I know, or perhaps as I remember it – no one on this forum had yet received a Model S, so the following was the best answer I got from that thread:

    And with that answer, I laid this concern about the rear seat whiplash protection to rest.

    At this time though, this issue should be easy to put aside once and for all. All it takes is for anyone of the hundreds (?) of owners on this forum to take a camera (stills or video) and show how Tesla actually designed the rear seat whiplash protection in the Model S…
     

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