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So tired of Stories about Tesla Workers - from anti Tesla folks.

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Garlan Garner, May 24, 2017.

  1. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    I'm really getting tired and annoyed about fake stories and news about Tesla workers at the factory.

    I suppose this is the latest story.

    Tesla’s injury rate at Fremont factory criticized in new report amid union push

    My response to the union and fake complainers. You are going to get all those factory workers let go and laid off.

    Meet Teslas new union.
    [​IMG]

    Keep on complaining.

    <iframe width="960" height="506" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Just keep on complaining about people if you wish.

    Tesla says Model S fire in France was due to ‘electrical connection improperly tightened’ by a human instead of robots
     
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  2. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

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    It does smack a little of 1930s thinking where there is NO other source of labor EVER but the union folks.... Some people can't ever change their thinking.
     
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  3. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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  4. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

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    According to the last article on this topic, there were a whopping 15 unhappy? outspoken? union advocate? employees out of 10,000. The union is going to need a whole lot more to get in there. If there was a huge problem within Tesla with the workers, we'd have heard about it a lot sooner and a lot louder and by a lot more people.

    It must also be remembered that so far the only ones to be complaining to the media are line/assembly/hourly workers. I don't know what the breakdown is of engineers (salary) to non-engineers (hourly), but I'd guess there aren't too many engineers interested in a union and their vote would be needed to get the union in there.

    And the fact the union is pounding away so hard suggests to me they've got a very uphill battle to get in there.
     
  5. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    lets hope so.
     
  6. Whistle2Whine

    Whistle2Whine Member

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    Here's what's weird...I grew up in a union household, but not a manufacturing union. Manufacturing is one of the industries that I see the role of unions to be the most precarious, because their labor is, in most cases, a commodity, one whose value is under constant threat from robots. I suppose skilled labor and knowledge work are under similar threat from AI, but not nearly as much.
     
  7. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    This probably will rub some people the wrong way but I am going to laugh hysterically when robots replace many of the "union" jobs that have been used to extort companies out of hundreds of billions of dollars over the years...

    I grew up in a "union" town... A town that used to be the global center of aviation... I watched job after job after job disappear with each new contract the union voted down and went on strike about and then had the nerve to ask "where did our jobs go"??? Now... The aviation industry is a shell of it's former self and impact of these economic losses have been steep...

    Jeff
     
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  8. croman

    croman Active Member

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    The OSHA 300 logs are the truth. Tesla doesn't deny that its early labor practices were harsh and unfair. Luckily they seem to have made corrections but, as the union, math and common sense note, one quarter is insufficient data with which to make any real judgments. Hopefully Tesla has corrected their past issues but those issues cannot be swept under the rug of anti-union sentiment.

    Tesla needs to hire a HR person for manufacturing. I know they stole EA's HR person but software and manufacturing require different strategies. I think I know the exact person with Fortune 10 manufacturing experience too. This would eliminate any Union sentiment, if it exists, because issues in the workplace can be addressed quickly instead of continuing (OSHA 300 logs note 3 years of above-average injury, especially long term injury).
     
  9. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    They just hired a person that is going to head up something special in HR.

    Tesla hires new ‘Chief People Officer’ from Electronic Arts
     
  10. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Yes that person knows software. Manufacturing is quite different and especially large scale manufacturing. Though any amount is human capital improvement will help reduce worker issues, boost morale, and foster company affinity. All of which will weaken any Union drive, if any.
     
  11. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Unions have pretty much outlived their usefulness in the western world and now are struggling to stay alive (after all, if unions dues stop coming, some people will lose their income). They had their time and place, but now with labor laws in place that is no longer the case. I get that some people would like to get paid and collect benefits based purely on their seniority with the company, but those times are gone. Consumers don't want to pay more for the groceries just because the store has been there longer. Just like people decide which products to buy based on the the product value and utility, employers are buying labor should be allowed to do the same. Pay should be proportional to skills and productivity, not to how long you've been with the company. My father worked in a union shop and he hated it, so did the company. It created an atmosphere of hostility between employer and employees. The employer felt was being strong-armed into paying for people with no skills, not willing to work or learn just because there was a union (which was true based on stories I heard) and employees felt the employer is trying to screw them because of thins like this: there was a guy with high seniority who took 3+ hour lunches to play cards with his friends in the cafeteria. When reprimanded, he filed a union grievance and union went to bat for him stating the foreman cannot reprimand the guy because that was singling him out since the company didn't have exact records on how long of a lunch EVERYONE was taking. So in order to get the one guy, the company instituted tracked lunch times, tracking every minute of every employees time and filing reprimands for anything over 59s too long (3 lates and you are fired, as per union contract) - can you imagine how that made the rest of the employees feel? If you get stuck in the bathroom an extra few seconds you risk being fired. The system used to work on trust and common sense, but once the union got involved it devolved into counting seconds. These kinds of things kept happening, people would invoke their religious rights to warship so they to go to a superbowl party so the employer would invoke their rights to force overtime on weekends, and on, and on.... A completely hostile situation. Personally I have never worked in such a situation, I don't think I could handle it. All the jobs I ever had were "at will" which means I can quit whenever and the employer can let me go whenever they decide I am no longer useful or worth the money they pay me. I prefer it this way, because if if they are still paying me I know they want me, and they know I want to be there if I still am there.

    PS> I have no problem with people unionizing by the way - getting common representation, HOWEVER i do have problem with all the laws giving unions special status, forcing employees to belong to a union, preventing employers from getting non-union workers in a unionized shop, etc.
     
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  12. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    It's not fake, it's based on facts (government safety records) from 2015 and Tesla admitted it in response to the story Tesla said:
    "We may have had some challenges in the past as we were learning how to become a car company, but what matters is the future".
     
  13. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    I'm not sure how well a Chief People Officer will resonate with blue collar people working the line. I think they've experienced enough of Silicon Valley's culture.
     
  14. Shorty

    Shorty Member

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    I have said this before and sadly it is based on experience.There is a large short position (> 30M shares) against Tesla yet the stock price is near a 52 week high. When this happens you start to see all sorts of fake stories and posts about problems at Tesla and issues with vehicles in an attempt to drive down the stock price as the 'pros' panic and have to cover their positions. Since people tend to react to fear faster then they do to good news it is an effective strategy. There is an entire industry of companies who do nothing but work to bash stocks and spread fakes news and reviews.

    Take anything you read here or online with a grain of salt.
     
  15. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Did you short Tesla? Is that why your name is Shorty? Just kidding. lol
     
  16. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    Capitalism fuels innovation. Pure capitalism is like cold steel, no emotions, no human value - it's all about competition & innovation.
    The theory is that a free market innovates itself to prosperity, and history has shown us that this is the case.

    However, unfettered capitalism is also self destructive. The experience of the 1920's and 30's and more have led to government oversight agencies, federal reserve, dodd frank .. some good some bad. Arguably all of them good and bad.

    One challenge we as mankind have not ever encountered is a rate of innovation that far outstrips a human being's ability to learn.
    Capitalism to thrive over a long term also requires a healthy middle class.

    You have to sit back and ask yourself, if robots will replace most humans, what will these humans do?
    They will go on welfare or forced welfare (a.k.a. crime), and put a tax on humans that can program these robots.

    So in that sense, I feel this beast of artificial intelligence and robots is something we as a society need to tame.

    Unions is not the answer, you can't stop a tsunami with a finger in the dyke (plus it'll make the dyke really mad).
    Our incredibly archaic and broken education system isn't up to the challenge either.

    I feel, we as a society are failing miserably in tackling this beast of AI and Robots - and if you think it doesn't affect you, no matter who you are, you are sadly mistaken!
     
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  17. Snerruc

    Snerruc Member

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    +1
     
  18. princeofhouse

    princeofhouse Member

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    I stay away and out of the union stuff with work, not a member.

    1. I don't like being told what to do, especially if a strike or such was called that I disagreed with or saw no value in so I would just get on with my job anyway. I don't need that sort of drama.
    Hell even if I agreed somewhat the reality is I got better things to do including paying my bills.

    2. based on what I observe a lot of unions seem to find any excuse to kick up trouble and they do it to keep themselves valuable.
    A union negotiator has little motivation to render himself unneeded by resolving a dispute quickly.

    In the UK we have the train driver unions trying to fight tooth and nail to stop the automation of railways and their roles and as a result pissing off everyone who just wants to get to work, they are upsetting the very people they claim are on their side.

    as for tesla, while I am sure there have been prior issues and probably some now, a union is not the way to fix it, the whole things feels like some pro-union lot wanting to gain a foothold so they can be "valuable" and get in the way.

    Increasingly car manufacturing is going to become automated and as long as unions continue to be a pain I can imagine that driving the owners to get rid of the pecky issue of such things faster.

    Shame for those peoples jobs of course...
     
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  19. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    #19 Skotty, May 25, 2017
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
    Unions should be transient. They should form when there is a sufficient level of imbalance in favor of corporation over the workers, and dissolve when the balance is fair or favors the workers. I'm not against unions, but I'm not really for them either. Depends on the current working conditions. Sometimes they get too heavy handed, just like the dealer associations are now, but sometimes they are warranted.

    As with all things, there is a balance to be struck.

    EDIT: Tesla does risk having the appearance and possible reality of having worse wages or working conditions than other automakers just by the immense oversupply of interested workers. Remember that job thing they did awhile back that had to be shut down because of how many people responded? So they might need to be careful to ensure they are treating workers reasonably well and not just going by supply and demand economics.
     
  20. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    The media has a uncanny ability of making non-issues look like major problems.
     
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