So what does the M3 mean for the MS?

[Canuck]

The MS could be now almost 3 times the price, is it worth it?

The "is it worth it?" question when it comes to vehicles depends solely on your financial situation. We could all buy a Prius and it will get us from point A to B just fine. Clearly, it's not "worth it" if you have to sacrifice your kid getting braces for the car. If so, the Model 3 is just fine and it makes sense to wait. But if you have the money, you will never get the next few years back and it's much better spending them with a Tesla than an ICE.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I'm blown away by the cost. Can someone reasure me that my s is still higher quality? Haha seriously it's 3x the price and I don't have autopilot or that all glass open feeling. The interior did not look low quality at all. I don't see how they achieved that price. Look at other cars at 35k and nothing compares. It's competing against a ford fusion and honda accord for christ sake;

I bought an early s because it was electric and fast. It's perfect except bigger than I actually need. I think many got an s when they did not need that big of a sedan. If tesla ever releases a super 3 for 100k lr a roadster with a backseat i would probably switch.

I'm not enitrely sold on exterior, but trust me many will buy a maxed out 3 over an s.

I don't know about higher quality, only time will tell, but I think you answered your own question. "I bought an early s because it was electric and fast. It's perfect except bigger than I actually need." And, you have it now. There is still nothing that you can buy today that compares, and probably not for another two - three years until another all electric can compete with the Model S.

I think the writing is on the wall too, that the Model S will get a refresh with new bells and whistles to keep the delta in price between it and the 3 in check.

Realistically, it is all good until the 3 ships. More S and X's will ship, the CPO market will grow, Superchargers and service centers will spread, so by the time the 3 is shipping you will have better options all the way around. I don't think I will mind if my biggest dilemma 3 years from now is buying a used P90DL for $50K - $60K vs a fully equipped 3 for about the same.

 

[David99]

The S will definitely get some major upgrades, but Tesla is in no rush. No one can buy a Model 3 now and won't be able to for another 2 years at least! So as of now there is no in-house competition. The Model S has been established as a high performance, upper class car and Tesla will for sure keep that market. I'm sure we will see many new premium features exclusive to the S and X that won't be available for the 3. Elon said the 3 will have 215 miles range, maybe a little more. The S is already at close to 300 right now.

 

[Beryl]

The S will definitely get some major upgrades, but Tesla is in no rush. No one can buy a Model 3 now and won't be able to for another 2 years at least! So as of now there is no in-house competition. The Model S has been established as a high performance, upper class car and Tesla will for sure keep that market. I'm sure we will see many new premium features exclusive to the S and X that won't be available for the 3. Elon said the 3 will have 215 miles range, maybe a little more. The S is already at close to 300 right now.

I agree. Being in the M Ξ queue is a lot of fun. Exciting times. However, it is likely that in a couple of years I'll cancel and continue to enjoy the tried and true ~ 283 mile range S90D -- at least until the fully autonomous software is available. My cross-country trips in the Model S (and X) will be more comfortable.

 

[pedriscoll]

Scott,
Thanks! I really love it as well. Is yours the darker blue? Very nice also

 

[bradjc]

The "is it worth it?" question when it comes to vehicles depends solely on your financial situation. We could all buy a Prius and it will get us from point A to B just fine. Clearly, it's not "worth it" if you have to sacrifice your kid getting braces for the car. If so, the Model 3 is just fine and it makes sense to wait. But if you have the money, you will never get the next few years back and it's much better spending them with a Tesla than an ICE.

I should clarify, I was posing the question of if is it worth the price difference between the M3 and MS now with the hyper competitive pricing on the M3 and the current premium pricing to purchase a MS. When on paper their specs are might end up similar, except for size. Of course details are currently thin on the M3, just throwing it out there as a current potential MS buyer.

 

[Doug_G]

Moved one post to Grammar Misteaks, Spelling Misteaks, and Bad Puns :)

 

[Sunlight]

I think some very interesting and unpredictable dynamics are going to happen!

For a start any low spec M3 will most probably get delivered in 2020+ so all the higher spec ones will come out in 2018-2019 and they will be possibly more expensive than a CPO MS. This MAY make the CPO/second hand MS price rise as people get Tesla/M3 besotted but don't want to wait ages for their car - certainly an M3 would suit me better but I'd get a CPO (or even new) MS to avoid the l-o-n-g wait.

I agree that the MS and M3 really pitch at different markets and are different cars just like the BMW3 vs BMW7 so there will always be a market for the MS (and its replacement/upgrade). And top end cars are more profitable than the 'run-of-the-mill' ones so Tesla unlikely to dip out of that market.

The base M3s may not even make a profit initially until the grand plan kicks in and EVs are just cheaper than ICE cars full-stop.

I do wonder how quickly ICE cars will fall from favour once they do not make sense - after 2025?

One of the reasons I have never entertained getting, say, a 7-series BM is the astronomical running costs when they get older due to the insanely complex engineering in them to get the smoothness and performance and 'economy'. I imagine that this does not apply (so much) to a bigger EV - eg an MS - as an electric motor is an electric motor - just the size varies......

 

[scott jones]

Scott,
Thanks! I really love it as well. Is yours the darker blue? Very nice also

It was dark blue until I crashed it ironically I crashed it April 1 last year and have been driving my Genesis ever since waiting for the refresh of the s or the 3. Maybe one of them will have wipers that don't suck with automation I'm already reserved for three but we'll see what happens

 

[slevit1md]

I don't understand this argument. There are probably a few people deciding between Model S and 3, myself included. It's not because "I can't afford it". A lot of the things you list in favor of the S are not. Smaller may be a positive for the 3. The S is a nice car no doubt, but it's very large. I haven't been in a 3 yet to judge, but it's probably a better size as a daily driver for most people. It's *barely* slower and most S drivers are not racing around all day anyway. We don't know what options there will be, other than a few obvious such as battery, interior, sound etc. That still won't get you near a Model S price. The S is still relevant, but I think it looks dated next to a 3. Anyway, you shouldn't be telling people what they should and shouldn't be comparing. It's not that simple.

Have you been in an S? It's a lot larger than the 3, but I wouldn't call it very large and it certainly doesn't drive like it's large. I would imagine that most people with a Model S are using it as a daily driver - it certainly is for me. The 3 is not barely slower. Compared to the performance model, it's about twice as slow. It's probably close to 2 seconds slower than the 85D. When you're only talking 4 seconds to begin with, a couple extra seconds is a big difference.

In any case, you're comparing a car that's likely 2 years out (probably more for at least half of the people who have already ordered) to a car that's available now. The model S will undoubtedly be updated several times before the 3 is available. 2 years ago, the S was a RWD only vehicle that was slower, had less range, a completely different UI, no steering wheel heat, far less comfortable seating, and didn't even have traffic aware cruise control, more or less any other autopilot features. You're comparing an $80000 premium vehicle to a mass market vehicle, and the two are just not comparable. Again, pretty much the same as comparing a 3 series to a 7 series BMW - completely different classes of vehicle.

If you don't need a new car now and don't mind waiting 2 years to see what Tesla's come up with to further differentiate the S, then that makes sense. But, debating between an S and a 3 really doesn't.

 

[David99]

While the Model S and Model 3 are different class cars, the Model S has been selling so well because it is up to this point, the only EV with a decent range. No one comes close. A study showed that many Model S owners never bought a premium, upper class car before and stepped it up so much because they wanted to have a true EV with good range. Once there is valid competition in terms of range, sales for the Model S will drop. Many buyers are totally fine with less of a car as long as it has decent range.

 

[DrManhattan]

Have you been in an S? It's a lot larger than the 3, but I wouldn't call it very large and it certainly doesn't drive like it's large. I would imagine that most people with a Model S are using it as a daily driver - it certainly is for me. The 3 is not barely slower. Compared to the performance model, it's about twice as slow. It's probably close to 2 seconds slower than the 85D. When you're only talking 4 seconds to begin with, a couple extra seconds is a big difference.

In any case, you're comparing a car that's likely 2 years out (probably more for at least half of the people who have already ordered) to a car that's available now. The model S will undoubtedly be updated several times before the 3 is available. 2 years ago, the S was a RWD only vehicle that was slower, had less range, a completely different UI, no steering wheel heat, far less comfortable seating, and didn't even have traffic aware cruise control, more or less any other autopilot features. You're comparing an $80000 premium vehicle to a mass market vehicle, and the two are just not comparable. Again, pretty much the same as comparing a 3 series to a 7 series BMW - completely different classes of vehicle.

If you don't need a new car now and don't mind waiting 2 years to see what Tesla's come up with to further differentiate the S, then that makes sense. But, debating between an S and a 3 really doesn't.

Yes, the S is large. The 3 isn't as small as you think, but it's not as large as the S of course. Maybe you should wait until you sit in one to judge. As far as speed, the base 3 is slower, but performance models will be much faster, so you're assessment is inaccurate. I don't even know what "twice as slow" even means. That's not true in any math equation. It would be more akin to a 5 series vs 7 series BMW, only if the 5 series never existed so people were stuck buying a 7 series for years until a 5 series was finally released. See how that works?

It is fair to compare them since they are from the same manufacturer, and only good EV's on the market. Just because you say you can't compare them doesn't make it so. A lot of people are going to have to make this decision in the near future.

I think a lot of people thought the model 3 would be an inferior vehicle compared to the S. Maybe it will be, but from what has shown it has blown people away. I certainly wasn't expecting it to be as good as it sounds. You say the S is 80,000 premium vehicle, but Teslas margins are a lot higher, and it was more expensive to produce. If Tesla re-did the S, and made it a mass market car, surely they could bring the price down a lot. That's essentially what the 3 is. As far as I can tell, it stays true to the S at a much better price point.

Stop telling people what to compare, every situation is different, every persons needs are different. When the 3 is released, these models will not be as different as you think.

 

[brkaus]

While the Model S and Model 3 are different class cars, the Model S has been selling so well because it is up to this point, the only EV with a decent range. No one comes close. A study showed that many Model S owners never bought a premium, upper class car before and stepped it up so much because they wanted to have a true EV with good range. Once there is valid competition in terms of range, sales for the Model S will drop. Many buyers are totally fine with less of a car as long as it has decent range.

My thoery is most could afford them, but didn't want to look too upscale. The Tesla can argue the environmental aspect as justification.

And the tech aspect as well. Look at the threads here and the kind of expertise that is participating. It's a new type of "gear head". And the tech community does have money and many don't see themselves as the Mercedes/BMW types.

 

[scott jones]

Yes, the S is large. The 3 isn't as small as you think, but it's not as large as the S of course. Maybe you should wait until you sit in one to judge. As far as speed, the base 3 is slower, but performance models will be much faster, so you're assessment is inaccurate. I don't even know what "twice as slow" even means. That's not true in any math equation. It would be more akin to a 5 series vs 7 series BMW, only if the 5 series never existed so people were stuck buying a 7 series for years until a 5 series was finally released. See how that works?

It is fair to compare them since they are from the same manufacturer, and only good EV's on the market. Just because you say you can't compare them doesn't make it so. A lot of people are going to have to make this decision in the near future.

I think a lot of people thought the model 3 would be an inferior vehicle compared to the S. Maybe it will be, but from what has shown it has blown people away. I certainly wasn't expecting it to be as good as it sounds. You say the S is 80,000 premium vehicle, but Teslas margins are a lot higher, and it was more expensive to produce. If Tesla re-did the S, and made it a mass market car, surely they could bring the price down a lot. That's essentially what the 3 is. As far as I can tell, it stays true to the S at a much better price point.

Stop telling people what to compare, every situation is different, every persons needs are different. When the 3 is released, these models will not be as different as you think.

Agreed AND
And from what Elon says the base model three is not much different in speed then the model S 70

 

[EKnight47]

The Model S is the size of a 5 Series, not a 7.

It's bigger than a 5. Regardless.....the 3 is still tiny and won't satisfy large luxury car buyers. Plain and simple.