TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

So, when is APv2 going to be noticeably better than APv1? Or is it already?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by marcmerlin, Sep 9, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Lex

    Lex Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    720
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    This scenario is just so unique in the whole "continuous improvement" thing so far. Imagine how much better the system would be today if they were allowed to continue working with MobilEye vision (eg. if the Intel acquisition happened earlier, preventing the divorce -- given Intel's willingness to play by Elon's rules that is). Even with "just" AP1 hardware, there has been little to no focus on further improvements (or attention to the browser for that matter) as all development cycles seem to consumed recovering from the divorce.
     
  2. marcmerlin

    marcmerlin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    I'd have expected APv2 to be so much better than v1 by now that I'd have gone to buy a new model S, but honestly I never expected APv1 to get much better. In case you don't know the details of the APv1 hardware, it's really quite limited. That's why I'm actually pretty happy with APv1 performance given what it has to work with.
    The hardware is limited/insufficient enough that when I went to buy my model S as APv1 was just coming out, that I told the salesperson "you know that those sensors you have are totally insufficient for what you're trying to do, I'll be impressed if AP can perform well with them".
    I'll gladly say that I was somewhat proven wrong, but again there is only so much APv1 can do with the onboard hardware.
    There is however indeed little excuse for APv2 not doing more as of yet, except lack of sufficient software engineering (IMO).
    The good news is that it can get better over time, but the longer it takes, the more tesla will get leapfrogged by someone else.
     
  3. _jal_

    _jal_ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Chicago
    Things got better from December '16 until May when 17.17.4 came out. What I mean is that measurable progress happened during that time. Since then they introduced a new control algorithm that was supposed to result in "smoother" operation, but actual usability or reliability or safety or some other difficult to quanitify quality has regressed or at least not progressed. I used 17.17.4 every day; I never use AP any more except to try a new version.

    There is no extrapolation from actual data to indicate that AP2 will ever be even close to what EAP was sold as or for that matter even as good as AP1. We can have faith in Tesla or whatever, but there is no data. And since it actually got worse after May (June?) and it still isn't fixed, there's a real possibility that the development system is "out of control" and no longer actually producing improvements. It's kind of weird.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Love x 3
    • Informative x 1
  4. dknisely

    dknisely Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    In my experience, AP1 almost never identifies previously untracked stopped cars that you come upon. However, AP2 has become pretty good at it (probably because AP2 uses vision more, and AP1 relies almost entirely on radar). I would say that AP2 picks up stopped cars that were never tracked in your direct lane about 95% of the time.

    In all other regards, AP2 performs worse than AP1 (and, at least for me, AP2 has gotten worse with every release since 17.4. I no longer use it on local or highway and have fallen back to TACC (except for stop-and-go, where it is OK and easy to monitor safely). There are just too many dangerous and unpredictable lurches and lane departures.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. caltechkid

    caltechkid Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    Taxifornia
    In short, AP2 is supposed to be better than AP1 at some point in the as yet undefined future (don't believe me, just tweet Elon). At this point, I've just got a bunch of extra cameras around my car that either make me look really cool or really shady depending on where I'm parked.
     
    • Funny x 1
  6. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,437
    Location:
    Sydney
    What's interesting is the rate of new firmware releases.
    Don't ask me what they are fixing, or what new features are being added because most of them feel exactly the same.
    But someone's doing something.
     
  7. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,437
    Location:
    Sydney
    My AP1 always detects and stops behind untracked stopped cars. I always monitor, and it always has worked.
     
    • Like x 5
  8. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,688
    Location:
    Prawn Island, VC
  9. MarcusMaximus

    MarcusMaximus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    San Jose
    There was, of course, another event that happened right around the same time as that particular software release within the company... I'm hopeful that Karpathy is just turning things around and getting everything back on track.
     
  10. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,583
    Car data logs cover that already. Drivers' faces - not so much. :)
     
  11. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Really happy with ap1. Wish they had stayed with mobileye. Holding on to our cars until/if they actually make ap2.x work significantly better than ap1.
     
  12. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    8,357
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #32 HankLloydRight, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
    Maybe, eventually, they'll scrap the idea of homemade AP and go back to ME/Intel for AP3.0.
     
  13. Kanting

    Kanting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    United States
    Same here.
     
  14. nagypite

    nagypite Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2016
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    EU
    I'm sure Mobileye/Intel AP will be better than AP1
     
    • Like x 1
  15. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,688
    Location:
    Prawn Island, VC
    Won't help us a bit, will it. Tesla and MobilEye = Dogs and cats and bird poo
     
  16. scottm

    scottm Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,970
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm still enjoying P0 as you young whippersnappers scoot around on your fancy AP1 and 2's
    (as he shakes his cane out the wind'r)
     
    • Funny x 1
  17. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    8,357
    Location:
    Connecticut
    But perhaps that might change now that Intel owns ME.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. boonedocks

    boonedocks Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    809
    Location:
    Gainesville, GA
    Those that never had AP1 glorify how AP2 works. Those that have/has AP1 and used it extensively, for the most part, know AP2 has a ways to go to better AP1.

    As for which is ether AP2 definitely has better....hardware :(
     
  19. scottm

    scottm Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,970
    Location:
    Canada
    I agree! Intel change of hands of the AP1 technology gives Tesla a way to save face while getting something back ... It's sitting over in Santa Clara on a bench and maybe by now Intel has put enough of their own juice into the tech it could possibly pass as "Intel Inside" instead of EyeQ ..

    Or, in a few weeks AMD will have cloned it, so Tesla could buy the vision tech from them for a few bucks less per car.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    GM and Cruise announce first mass-production self-driving car
    BY DARRELL ETHERINGTON

    Head over to techcrunch for the article
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page