So, when is APv2 going to be noticeably better than APv1? Or is it already?

[jdjeff88]

/digression

Show me a law firm that's going broke and I'll show you a law firm with a conscience.

Some of the best lawyers I've known are far from rich. But that's partly because I try to not knowingly associate with complete scumbags.

Now, for our first conundrum, how to qualify government lawyers... clearly, they work as hard as anyone else, but don't get paid jack, relatively speaking. And then there are the pro bono folks, who've invested at least some amount into their law degree and who feel compelled to give back. It's an interesting spectrum to say the least. For some, it depends to a degree upon which side of the room you sit.

Cue the "good" lawyers in 3, 2, 1...

/end digression

.............sigh..........

 

[Saghost]

Is it possible for Tesla to install AP1 software into AP2 cars until they get AP2 sorted? As the AP2 cars have more cameras and a bigger computer, and as I understand it, AP2 cars aren't using the extra cameras yet anyway, then it should be possible.

I would like the option of going back to the cruise control that doesn't have the traffic aware component. It was the best cruise control system on any car I've owned, but TACC keeps propping for no reason, so I rarely use it. Not having cruise control is a major bummer for me.

Possible? Maybe, depending on how much code is machine level and how well they understand the differences.

Legal? Not in the slightest bit, they'd be stealing Mobileye IP and applying it where they don't have a license.

 

[HankLloydRight]

No, Elon already said it's a waste of time and resource.

Elon Musk on Twitter

What you quoted was someone asking if they could retrofit AP2 into an AP1 car, which is pretty much impossible.

(snip)

What TES 90D asked was: Is it possible for Tesla to install AP1 software into AP2 cars until they get AP2 sorted?

Which I would say, besides the legal issues, no way. That would be like asking if you can install the Tivo software on your Comcast DVR. The MobileEye platform is a set of highly integrated sensors and computers.. you can't take just the AP1 software and install it with a completely different set of cameras and sensors and a completely different CPU/computing engine.

 

[lunitiks]

retrofit AP2 into an AP1 car, which is nearly impossible (yes, one person did it who said he'd never do it again)

W.H.O. W.H.E.N. AND W.H.E.R.E???

 

[BigD0g]

What you quoted was someone asking if they could retrofit AP2 into an AP1 car, which is nearly impossible (yes, one person did it who said he'd never do it again). What TES 90D asked was: Is it possible for Tesla to install AP1 software into AP2 cars until they get AP2 sorted?

Umm NOOO! they did not... He took a non AP car and made it AP1, it was @wk057 that did it on his wifes car.
Autopilot Retrofit on Classic P85 | wk057's SkieNET

 

[SlicedBr3ad]

Our car is stuck on release .32 - and I've pretty much given up on using AP2 in any drives. It seems to be more work to keep AP2 from crashing into something (especially when there's been recent or ongoing construction) than any benefit AP2 might provide. And on surface streets, at least in our area - it's worse. Plus, the change to the speed limit database creates major challenges when the freeway is marked incorrectly at a lower speed - and the car immediately slows down - in the middle of traffic.

As someone who's managed large software/hardware projects, I can appreciate the complexity of what Tesla is trying to do with EAP/FSD - and the risks in trying to deliver major new software capabilities as quickly as possible. And Tesla won't be the first company to badly miss their software schedules.
...

As someone who manages large software/hardware projects, I hope you have a case pending with Tesla on this. Don't assume they know your car actual behavior matches expected ap2 behavior.

 

[brianman]

As someone who manages large software/hardware projects, I hope you have a case pending with Tesla on this. Don't assume they know your car actual behavior matches expected ap2 behavior.

@bob_p - Definitely do so. I really hate to think that your car is sending telemetry to Tesla teaching the rest of our cars how to be less safe.

 

[HankLloydRight]

W.H.O. W.H.E.N. AND W.H.E.R.E???

Umm NOOO! they did not... He took a non AP car and made it AP1, it was @wk057 that did it on his wifes car.
Autopilot Retrofit on Classic P85 | wk057's SkieNET

UNCLE! You guys are right.. I was confusing the retrofit. Sorry! My bad.

But my point remains -- you can't take AP1 software and just plop it on AP2. And that's not what ideluser quoted Elon talking about. Elon said they won't take AP1 cars and retrofit AP2 into them. Big difference.

 

[wk057]

Any retrofit of this kind (non-AP to AP1, non-AP to AP2, AP1 to AP2, AP2 to AP1) would be pretty involved. Some easier than others, but none that I'd think would be worth bothering with.

 

[lunitiks]

Except for you

 

[jnuyens]

While I had hoped that the AP2 development would have gone faster, I really love it and use it all the time. I compared it with an AP1 loaner, and the AP1 feels more solid and more predictable, but also not so good when lane markings go away or on local roads. Maybe we should compile a list to define what works (like not too swirly roads) and what doesn't (like speed adjustment based upon the road conditions and roundabouts).
I also have the (subjective) feeling that 'adaptive cruise control' has improved over time.
The promised 'taking highway exits and ramp-ons and ramp-offs', seems like something they could add easily with the current software.

I'm curious to see if the promise of Elon to do the autonomous SF->NY drive will materialise, but I think so. My most important question with respect to that, is if the 'Charging Snakes' will be installed in time...

 

[bob_p]

I'll likely call Tesla tomorrow to ask about software updates for our S 100D - since we haven't seen anything since Harvey hit town.

Worrying about the Tesla software hasn't been a priority - as the area recovers from the hurricane, though now that things are settling down again - it's probably time to get the latest software installed - and give the AP2 system another try...

 

[Hota]

Wouldn't hold my breath on "free" hardware. Tesla will run the numbers and decide it is much more cost effective to refund the FSD deposits... and never mind the misrepresentations. They were only kidding.

It's going to cost them a lot more than that as there will be plenty of lawsuits claiming that their Tesla was purchased only because of the promise of FSD or even EAP.

 

[dknisely]

It's going to cost them a lot more than that as there will be plenty of lawsuits claiming that their Tesla was purchased only because of the promise of FSD or even EAP.

I don't think any judge will buy that argument. Only the incremental $5000 + $3000 could possibly be recovered, and 98% of that will go to the lawyers. Class action members will get nothing but a gift certificate.

 

[Hota]

I don't think any judge will buy that argument. Only the incremental $5000 + $3000 could possibly be recovered, and 98% of that will go to the lawyers. Class action members will get nothing but a gift certificate.

That amount is large enough and the damage egregious enough where people won't join the class if the payout isn't close to the $8k.

 

[BigD0g]

Except for you

Happy wife happy life!

 

[BigD0g]

I'm curious to see if the promise of Elon to do the autonomous SF->NY drive will materialise, but I think so. My most important question with respect to that, is if the 'Charging Snakes' will be installed in time...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no to both of these things, at least not this year.... Actually I don't feel I am anywhere near a limb with the FSD stuff, I feel I am firmly on the ground. As for the robo snake charger, I don't see that happening either unless it's mounted on a trailer or something as a POC that travels ahead of the car.

I think Elon was talking about it being hands off was Valet at all charge stops for the FSD drive

 

[BigD0g]

It's going to cost them a lot more than that as there will be plenty of lawsuits claiming that their Tesla was purchased only because of the promise of FSD or even EAP.

Yep, I'm one of them, I finally went in after the sham of a videos was released and the promise of FSD with my car. If they can't give me FSD with my car, they better give me a brand new one that can. Call it repayment of my 3000 "investment" for development of non existent FSD software.

Actually, I am not entire sure Tesla will survive if they fail on this particular promise. Especially with all the M3's about to hit the road.

 

[Sunshine State]

It is a shame that they have stopped upgrading the AP1 Autopilot. Im sure they don't want to push AP1 too far ahead of AP2 and never be able to get close to it. They sold AP1 cars with the promise that they would continually improve but that promise seems to be now limited to tiny meaningless tweaks. They should at least keep a smaller team dedicated to those AP1 customers who financed Tesla's growth based on Tesla's promises. If they have abandoned AP1 upgrading they should change they promise to "Cars will continually improve unless they make our newer models look bad".

 

[R.S]

It is a shame that they have stopped upgrading the AP1 Autopilot. Im sure they don't want to push AP1 too far ahead of AP2 and never be able to get close to it. They sold AP1 cars with the promise that they would continually improve but that promise seems to be now limited to tiny meaningless tweaks. They should at least keep a smaller team dedicated to those AP1 customers who financed Tesla's growth based on Tesla's promises. If they have abandoned AP1 upgrading they should change they promise to "Cars will continually improve unless they make our newer models look bad".

Why improve it? It can already do on ramp to off ramp driving.

On my way to work there is a combined on and off ramp and my AP1 can handle that just fine

And AFAIK they never promised more with AP1!