So Who Will Be Watching this All-Electric Cadillac Lyriq REVEAL 8/6/20 7pm EDT!?!?

[CyberShy]

That was so painful to watch... a bunch of out-of-touch white guys and gals trying to justify their existence before retirement. Game over Cady!

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I found that format so cringey and awful. I very much prefer Apple keynotes (just my IMHO), but since they shied away from the specs and made it this rehearsed Question and answer session that was so unnatural, I don’t think there were really a good way to announce the car.

Engineers and executives aren’t actors and they shouldn’t pretend to be them. I think their hardest course is public speaking (it’s not easy for most) and this is an example of how not to do it. The Ford Mach E announcement was just as bad.

I have high hopes for the car and welcome it.

 

[cab]

On the upside, we now all know what Wolverine moved onto post X-men.

 

[Darmie]

I think the stigma of GM crushing the EV1 looses all credibility attempting to make an all electric car. They can show off all this eye candy but what they had done was down right a disgrace to their loyal GM EV community.

 

[Silicon Desert]

For me, it was too much yacking and showing nature videos. I was hoping for a better presentation.

 

[wws]

I think the stigma of GM crushing the EV1 looses all credibility attempting to make an all electric car. They can show off all this eye candy but what they had done was down right a disgrace to their loyal GM EV community.

Water way past under the bridge. GM remains the only non-Tesla vendor to have gone past the 200k plugin car threshold for the Federal Tax Credit. So that puts them at a serious disadvantage compared to their traditional (I.e., non-Tesla) competition.

I do wonder how Cadillac will ever sell a significant number of cars here in Silicon Valley though. Their main dealership on Stevens Creek Blvd closed a few years ago. The nearby Chevy dealership has been one of the highest volume Volt/Bolt dealerships in the country.

 

[tomas]

Here it is! The Jaguar! oops. Audi! oops. Porsche! oops. Polestar! Coming oops. Cadillac! Yeah, that’s the ticket!!!

 

[Darmie]

Water way past under the bridge. GM remains the only non-Tesla vendor to have gone past the 200k plugin car threshold for the Federal Tax Credit. So that puts them at a serious disadvantage compared to their traditional (I.e., non-Tesla) competition.

I do wonder how Cadillac will ever sell a significant number of cars here in Silicon Valley though. Their main dealership on Stevens Creek Blvd closed a few years ago. The nearby Chevy dealership has been one of the highest volume Volt/Bolt dealerships in the country.

Yes, good point. Besides, the customer that may buy the car won't even know of the EV1.

 

[BigNick]

Yes, good point. Besides, the customer that may buy the car won't even know of the EV1.

Aren’t Cadillac buyers usually 50+?

 

[MXLRplus]

Aren’t Cadillac buyers usually 50+?

All new car buyers are usually 50+ years old.

Age 24 and younger less than 1%
Age 25 to 54 43%
Age 55 to 64 26%
Age 65 and up 31%

source Automotive Trends: New Car Buyer Demographics 2020

But yes, due to price, the median age of Cadillac buyers is higher than less expensive brands.
My first Cadillac I bought for my own use was a CTS-V when I was in my 40's for occasional track use.

Yes, good point. Besides, the customer that may buy the car won't even know of the EV1.

Most people are unaware of or don't remember the EV1. And of those who were exposed to the EV1, most remember from "Who Killed The Electric Car". Many otherwise intelligent EV enthusiasts actually believed the premise of that movie. I just chuckled. It was a like a 3rd Reich movie from 1938.

I think the stigma of GM crushing the EV1 looses all credibility attempting to make an all electric car. They can show off all this eye candy but what they had done was down right a disgrace to their loyal GM EV community.

Which Automaker crushed the most leased EVs? Honda. Nearly all their leased EVs so far have been scrapped on return.
Why did GM lower the lease rates on the EV1 near the end even though the new NiMH packs increased costs by 50%? Nobody wanted them, even though a marketing survey said 80% of car buyers would consider one. Many were crushed unsold. Only 42 owners requested to buy their EV1 at lease end. The EV1 made the "Time Magazine 50 Worst Cars Of All Time" list.

The first EV charging network was GM's 1100 charging sites for the EV1 program. If California would not have backtracked their EV % mandate, the EV1 program might have broke even. Instead it lost $1.5B in 2020 dollars, which is remarkable for an 1100 car program. Some the EV1 technology is so bleeding edge that today's EVs still have not caught it. Lowest Cd and CdA of any EV? The EV1. It was not until recently it's World Land Speed Record of ~186mph was surpassed.

 

[cab]

I like the front exterior and interior of this car but the rear (and resultant impact to the side profile) is off. I'm sure this was due to aerodynamics where you either have to chop it off or go bubble butt. However, the Jaguar i-Pace also went the chop it off route, but seems to pull it off better. Indeed, the i-Pace's exterior theme is simply more cohesive. Interior-wise, I do wish Jaguar had gone with a fewer large screens, like Tesla and Cadillac, vs. lots of little ones. Quite a bit of give and take with all the EV choices.

I am hopeful that GM's experience with the Volt and Bolt will give their service departments just enough experience to reliably service these cars. My Volt was virtually problem free for the 34K miles I had it, but I know others often had to wait for "the Volt guy" when they needed service. We'll see.

I still believe the Mustang Mach E will be the litmus test for whether or not buyers want an EV vs. wanting a TESLA EV. Honestly, the average person appears to be generally unaware that anyone BUT Tesla makes electric cars.

 

[tonybelding]

Most people are unaware of or don't remember the EV1. And of those who were exposed to the EV1, most remember from "Who Killed The Electric Car". Many otherwise intelligent EV enthusiasts actually believed the premise of that movie. I just chuckled. It was a like a 3rd Reich movie from 1938.

Care to elaborate? It's a favorite of mine, and I didn't find much wrong with it.

 

[MXLRplus]

Care to elaborate? It's a favorite of mine, and I didn't find much wrong with it.

If you were alive and working on the EV1 program, you would. Did you even apply for an EV1?

It is 100% correct if you're Elvis living in Area 51 married to Bigfoot.

 

[tonybelding]

If you were alive and working on the EV1 program, you would. Did you even apply for an EV1?

Uh, I live in Texas. I barely heard of its existence at the time, and couldn’t have applied even if I wanted to.

It is 100% correct if you're Elvis living in Area 51 married to Bigfoot.

So I guess that’s a “no”, you are not going to elaborate.

 

[MXLRplus]

Uh, I live in Texas. I barely heard of its existence at the time, and couldn’t have applied even if I wanted to.



So I guess that’s a “no”, you are not going to elaborate.

A high % of today's Texans are transplants, especially in the Tech and MFR'g fields.

The crime of deliberate omission was the propaganda technique that permeated that hit piece.
Most automakers lobbied to remove the EV mandate instead of making EVs for California. Yes, GM was part of the association that did the lobbying, but they also went max effort on the EV programs, surpassing all other competitors. The EV1 wasn't the first, second, or third EV for GM or even the 10th. In fact, GM is perhaps the oldest existing EV maker. GMC was the leading producer of electric heavy trucks 100+ years ago.

It is far easier to point out what is actually true in WKTEC. Yes, GM designed a modern 'clean sheet' EV. However, nobody else took that route. And the EV1 wasn't alone, GM also made a small EV truck at the same time (not clean sheet, S10 based), some of these are still in operation.

 

[ohmman]

A high % of today's Texans are transplants, especially in the Tech and MFR'g fields.

The crime of deliberate omission was the propaganda technique that permeated that hit piece.
Most automakers lobbied to remove the EV mandate instead of making EVs for California. Yes, GM was part of the association that did the lobbying, but they also went max effort on the EV programs, surpassing all other competitors. The EV1 wasn't the first, second, or third EV for GM or even the 10th. In fact, GM is perhaps the oldest existing EV maker. GMC was the leading producer of electric heavy trucks 100+ years ago.

It is far easier to point out what is actually true in WKTEC. Yes, GM designed a modern 'clean sheet' EV. However, nobody else took that route. And the EV1 wasn't alone, GM also made a small EV truck at the same time (not clean sheet, S10 based), some of these are still in operation.

I don't pretend to know the full history of the EV1, so I can't comment but I will say that I watch all documentaries with an eye of skepticism. The format of documentaries is misleading, because it implies reporting, which makes us think of mostly indifferent reporting. But all of them are framing a narrative chosen by the documentarian. It's more interesting to watch documentaries and think "what is the motive of the person who has made this, and how are they trying to guide me into believing their story?"

That's not to say I think all documentaries are nonsense. I just think they require a lot of scrutiny.

 

[wws]

A high % of today's Texans are transplants, especially in the Tech and MFR'g fields.

The crime of deliberate omission was the propaganda technique that permeated that hit piece.
Most automakers lobbied to remove the EV mandate instead of making EVs for California. Yes, GM was part of the association that did the lobbying, but they also went max effort on the EV programs, surpassing all other competitors. The EV1 wasn't the first, second, or third EV for GM or even the 10th. In fact, GM is perhaps the oldest existing EV maker. GMC was the leading producer of electric heavy trucks 100+ years ago.

In fact Ransom E Olds (Oldsmobile/REO) was experimenting with electric vehicles even before the 1910s GMC trucks. But I'm not sure Olds was part of GM at the time. GM was a subcontractor to Boeing for the lunar rover. So they beat Elons Roadster into space by almost 50 years.

It is far easier to point out what is actually true in WKTEC. Yes, GM designed a modern 'clean sheet' EV. However, nobody else took that route. And the EV1 wasn't alone, GM also made a small EV truck at the same time (not clean sheet, S10 based), some of these are still in operation.

There is a really good book on the EV1 called "The Car That Could". The author was allowed access to the EV1 development team. It was published in 1996. So didn't document the official end and scrapping of the cars. A great read nonetheless and dovetails into the story of the founding of Tesla and the original Roadster.

 

[BigNick]

In fact Ransom E Olds (Oldsmobile/REO) was experimenting with electric vehicles even before the 1910s GMC trucks. But I'm not sure Olds was part of GM at the time. GM was a subcontractor to Boeing for the lunar rover. So they beat Elons Roadster into space by almost 50 years.

If GM ever fully embraces EV tech (or is more likely forced to do so) they should resurrect the Oldsmobile or Pontiac division as a 100% EV division. Oldsmobile was always the “experimental” division. Turbocharger with methanol injection, that sort of thing. EVs would be a good fit even though they’re not really experimental these days.

 

[wws]

If GM ever fully embraces EV tech (or is more likely forced to do so) they should resurrect the Oldsmobile or Pontiac division as a 100% EV division. Oldsmobile was always the “experimental” division. Turbocharger with methanol injection, that sort of thing. EVs would be a good fit even though they’re not really experimental these days.

I've always thought Buick should be offering EV products. Bring back the Electra!

 

[tonybelding]

The crime of deliberate omission was the propaganda technique that permeated that hit piece.

What did they omit?

Most automakers lobbied to remove the EV mandate instead of making EVs for California.

The movie did give that impression, I thought. They didn't go into great detail about everyone who was lobbying CARB, but it seemed clear enough that it wasn't just GM. They interviewed the Ford guy who talked about he wished it was possible to make a viable EV, but you just can't. They showed the Honda EVs being shredded. They talked a little about Toyota's aborted attempt to round up all the RAV4 EVs.

Yes, GM was part of the association that did the lobbying, but they also went max effort on the EV programs, surpassing all other competitors.

I think the movie made that very clear. They focused on the EV1 for a reason, because it was the EV flagship. It was clear that GM were very proud of it, and they were also very resentful of it. Because GM is a huge company with a lot of factions and a lot of veeps, and they very often don't pull in the same direction.

The EV1 wasn't the first, second, or third EV for GM or even the 10th. In fact, GM is perhaps the oldest existing EV maker. GMC was the leading producer of electric heavy trucks 100+ years ago.

Not sure how that's really relevant here.

So far I'm not really seeing why you hate the movie so much. They presented a lot of facts, some interpretation and opinions from a range of experts and people who had first-hand experience with the subject, and then they let the viewer draw their own conclusions. That's what a documentary should do. Yeah, it was particularly hard on GM, but it was hard on other car makers, and it painted a quite unflattering picture of CARB too. (And CARB would later clash with Tesla a number of times, as they just weren't following the script that CARB's committees had planned out.)

 

[outdoors]

Steve Carlisle, president of General Motors North America, confirmed that the Cadillac Lyriq will start at less than $60,000.