So will FSD follow FUSC on 3rd party sales?

[boonedocks]

With Tesla’s latest antics of removing FUSC on cars that were originally sold as FUSC for the life of the car....what are your thoughts on Tesla removing FSD on cars sold 3rd party with pre-paid FSD when no HW3 upgrade has been done yet?

I personally wouldn’t put it past them to remove the feature and resell it again to the new owner.

These shenanigans are getting pretty ridiculous.

 

[pilotSteve]

doesn’t really matter, as long as the “trade in” value from Tesla incorporates what was purchase. Then they own it... and can do as they like.

 

[BPeter]

They can't do that. They can only take features off if they own the car.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Legality wise what they're doing now is legal (at least marginally), but I'd say unethical. It is because by removing the feature they're reducing the resale value of the vehicle because they sell the vast majority of used Tesla's. They're not eating the loss of $'s by removing it, but they're passing the loss onto the seller. That's what makes the practice pretty gross. A new Model S/X comes with free supercharging for the life of the vehicle so that's obviously an incentive to get one over a used Model S/X that doesn't (when buying through Tesla).

Legality wise Tesla can't remove free supercharging for the life of the vehicle from a third party. This might create some special unicorns in the fleet where owners were smart enough to avoid selling/buying a used vehicle with FUSC through Tesla.

 

[jaredm25]

They can't do that. They can only take features off if they own the car.

That would seem to be correct from a legal standpoint but I think the OP was alluding to the fact that they are indeed doing so anyway with FUSC. As I and at least one other owner have discussed in a couple other posts FUSC was removed from a pre-2017 vehicle Tesla did not own. In my case I purchased from a 3rd party dealer, the FUSC was still properly displayed in my Tesla account after the transfer of ownership but then 2 months later they decided to remove it and so far they are sticking to their right to do that and refuse to honor the previous terms.

 

[boonedocks]

There are a few - more than anecdotal reports - that Tesla has indeed removed FUSC from cars purchased outside of Tesla’s on resales. Other members have reported it on threads in the forums. It’s all more than just a little fishy.

 

[jaredm25]

And here is a response from Tesla stating that yes they do this now.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

And here is a response from Tesla stating that yes they do this now.
View attachment 438619

What vintage was the Model S/X that this was regarding?

There are two different kinds of free supercharging.

One is for the life of the vehicle, and one is for the duration of ownership.

I can easily see the above being written for the later where they realized they weren't always removing supercharger status.

Or I could be just grasping at straws since in my mind it clearly violates what was written for the former.

 

[pilotSteve]

I have free unlimited, transferable supercharging and that has been, and still is (as of today) shown on my account page. So they aren’t breaking past agreements it appears.

Tesla would only have the right to modify/remove that if I sold/traded it to Tesla or possibly if I sold to a dealer, however they clearly state the FUSC will pass to “the next owner” when I sell.

Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms.

 

[zanary]

I have free unlimited, transferable supercharging and that has been, and still is (as of today) shown on my account page. So they aren’t breaking past agreements it appears.

Tesla would only have the right to modify/remove that if I sold/traded it to Tesla or possibly if I sold to a dealer, however they clearly state the FUSC will pass to “the next owner” when I sell.

Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms.

Actually if you read it closely, it says if YOU choose to sell your current Tesla, then it will transfer to the next owner, but if you sell to Tesla, they can do as they wish as that statement is no longer true, as the manufacture now owns it, and now they can do as they wish. It's their property.

 

[whitex]

I have free unlimited, transferable supercharging and that has been, and still is (as of today) shown on my account page. So they aren’t breaking past agreements it appears.

Tesla would only have the right to modify/remove that if I sold/traded it to Tesla or possibly if I sold to a dealer, however they clearly state the FUSC will pass to “the next owner” when I sell.

Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms.

What people are reporting, (read comment #7 on this thread) is stripping FUSC if you choose to trade your car in anywhere, to Tesla or other dealers. This means your car is worth less as a trade-in, because FUSC is lost at the time of a trade-in. The OP was asking, what if Tesla does the same with other features, such as FSD. Imagine you have a car with FSD, but that car loses FSD at trade-in time, therefore it has no trade-in value. We know Tesla already strips FSD from used AP2.0 cars and told new owners FSD cannot be purchased for that car anymore. What if they start doing it like with FUSC, strip it if you trade it in it to any dealer.

 

[jaredm25]

What vintage was the Model S/X that this was regarding?

There are two different kinds of free supercharging.

One is for the life of the vehicle, and one is for the duration of ownership.

I can easily see the above being written for the later where they realized they weren't always removing supercharger status.

Or I could be just grasping at straws since in my mind it clearly violates what was written for the former.

This was a 2014 MS P85. All of these vehicles ordered prior to January 15th, 2017 had the "life of the vehicle" FUSC and no terms to the contrary were ever published. Tesla would certainly still have the right to remove it from vehicles they purchased back but they are now claiming they can do it even to vehicles they do not own.

 

[bob_p]

Getting back to the OP's question - the answer is NO.

Full Self Driving is an extra charge feature that is listed in the Purchase Agreement. For a 3rd party re-sale, the features listed in the Purchase Agreement should be transferred to the new owner, unless the agreement states otherwise or Tesla provides a refund to remove that feature from the vehicle.

We have 3 vehicles purchased with FUSC - and the purchase agreements for those vehicles doesn't list that as a feature or is there any term in the agreement covering supercharging. Tesla's policy on FUSC has changed multiple times since superchargers were introduced in 2013 - and those benefits have never been documented in a legal agreement or official statement to owners (which one could argue is a potential problem for Tesla, since they've never provided "terms and conditions" for superchargers). If Tesla decides not to provide FUSC for used vehicles (from Tesla or 3rd parties), especially if they've never indicated a vehicle has transferrable FUSC - then we shouldn't be surprised for them to make that change.

All of these problems are related to a mistake Tesla made several years ago with FUSC.

Originally Tesla marketed FUSC as "Free Long Distance Charging". Since almost all driving is done locally, the annual per vehicle cost for this service was likely several hundred $$ - and something Tesla could absorb in the original purchase price of the vehicle (Supercharging was briefly an extra price option for some of the early vehicles - $2500?).

Where Tesla ran into trouble was simplifying this to "Free Unlimited Supercharging" - which allowed owners without access to overnight charging or commercial operators to exclusively use superchargers for all charging - and the cost of supporting those vehicles is not sustainable.

What Tesla should do is go back to the original FLDC label - and include that in all new S/X vehicles, to help differentiate the higher priced S/X from 3/Y, and by limiting the free supercharging to only long distance driving (which Tesla could implement in software) Tesla could allow FLDC to stay with vehicles for the life of the car or limit it to 8 years/100K miles.

 

[D.E.]

If they own the car they can alter the supercharging attached to the car and sell it without. If they do not own the car and if the free supercharging passes on to subsequent owners, then they should not be able to remove it because it diminishes the value of the car.

It seems they’d be opening themselves up to liability if they sell a car with transferable lifetime free supercharging (LFSC) then remove the LFSC when ownership hasn’t been transferred to Tesla. Unless there is a disclaimer provided at the time of original purchase specifying that the LFSC doesn’t survive an ownership by a 3rd party dealer, they should not be able to remove it now.

There may be a jargon issue. If they said the LFSC passes on when YOU sell the car, then they may claim it is a one time transfer and that the new ownership by the 3rd party dealer is that one time transfer. I don’t think they ever specified that the transfer could only happen once, though. I think it was “for the lifetime of the car” in which case all future owners should get the LFSC.

That note from Tesla Customer Support claiming they changed the policy on 4/23/19 must be in error. A contract is binding between the purchaser of the car and Tesla. Since Tesla says it transfers, then the ownership of the LFSC stays with the car until the life of the car is over. Tesla cannot later go back and unilaterally change that agreement. They can default on their side of the agreement which makes them civilly liable. I imagine the class action attorneys would be all over this.

 

[croman]

I think the issue with sale to third party who resells is that one sale exhausts the FUSC transfer clause. Basically X person sells their FUSC car to Y (car dealer who has FUSC but never uses it because they are reselling) but Y never got transferrable FUSC (it was a one time deal per the language on Tesla's site now). When Y sells to Z (end consumer), Z doesn't get FUSC because Y didn't have transferrable FUSC.

Tesla's original language was indefinite (it tied FUSC to the OWNER not the car). That lasted like 2 weeks (there were threads about it). The current language implies that FUSC is not for the life of the car unless the original owner OR the next proximate owner keeps the car. Then it will last as long as the car. So the resale value is only increased if the original owner can sell to one final other owner. Any subsequent sales erase FUSC.

 

[jaredm25]

I think the issue with sale to third party who resells is that one sale exhausts the FUSC transfer clause. Basically X person sells their FUSC car to Y (car dealer who has FUSC but never uses it because they are reselling) but Y never got transferrable FUSC (it was a one time deal per the language on Tesla's site now). When Y sells to Z (end consumer), Z doesn't get FUSC because Y didn't have transferrable FUSC.

Tesla's original language was indefinite (it tied FUSC to the OWNER not the car). That lasted like 2 weeks (there were threads about it). The current language implies that FUSC is not for the life of the car unless the original owner OR the next proximate owner keeps the car. Then it will last as long as the car. So the resale value is only increased if the original owner can sell to one final other owner. Any subsequent sales erase FUSC.

The language has definitely changed over time but there has never been anything published that contradicts or removes the "lifetime of the car" statements for pre-Jan 15,2017 vehicles that had the feature either purchased or included in sale price. They stopped using those terms on their website after 2017 and newer vehicles with FUSC now state that it does not transfer to next owner if you view via My Tesla account. However those pre-2017 vehicles still to this day show original terms in My Tesla account.

 

[dbldwn02]

With Tesla’s latest antics of removing FUSC on cars that were originally sold as FUSC for the life of the car....what are your thoughts on Tesla removing FSD on cars sold 3rd party with pre-paid FSD when no HW3 upgrade has been done yet?

I personally wouldn’t put it past them to remove the feature and resell it again to the new owner.

These shenanigans are getting pretty ridiculous.

I figured they were already doing that. Cheaper to remove it than retrofit. Especially the AP2.0 cars since those will need more than just a chip upgrade.
Whether I purchased FSD or not, my trade-in price is still the same. They don't give any credit for it. Would be nice if they moved it to the new car.