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Software concerns

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by spatterso911, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

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    #1 spatterso911, Mar 20, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2012
    I spent about 10 minutes at Fiskerbuzz.com, an activity which I wholeheartedly do NOT recommend, and so much of the complaints there involve major software issues. Now, I realize that we are talking somewhat about apples and oranges wrt Tesla v. Fisker, but are there any valid concerns about software failures, particularly catastrophic ones in the Model S??

    What kinds of issues, if any, have roadster owners experienced?

    Seems that Karma owners are happy if they only have 5 or less major problems and only have to reboot 3 times or less per day (successful reboots that is)!
     
  2. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    In 26,302 miles I've found no software problems with the Roadster...
     
  3. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    As a software guy, this is a really big concern for me since it's pretty much impossible to ship without bugs. However, also as a software guy, the lessons learned from the Roadster gives Tesla a big advantage over Fisker. And it sounds like Tesla's doing their own software where Fisker outsourced. Given the criticality of the software to Tesla's business, keeping the knowledge in house is huge (wish I could convince a lot of other software companies of that....).
     
  4. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

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    In the world of Tesla Motors...software is king! It is why Tesla will and have outpaced the rest of the EV community despite sale numbers.
     
  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Ditto. But for just over 12k miles/13 months of driving.
     
  6. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I had one issue with my Roadster 2.0 in its early days, which was due to firmware. It caused an occasional failure for the car to start properly. Turning off and on again cleared it. It only happened a few times, and a firmware update eliminated it.

    I'm sure the 1.5 owners had more glitches, but that said Tesla is a rather more mature company now. Also I expect that the S's drive train control software would have been derived from the Roadster's (at least, that's what I would have done - always leverage fully tested code wherever you can).
     
  7. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

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    I'm taking stock in the superiority of the Silicon Valley brain trust. They are hyper talented and thus far, have been innovative. I have not seen much to cause concern, but pangs of fear set in after reading about how many Karma owners have to lock the doors and make sure the car is "asleep" before charging, then do a rain dance and say a little prayer before pressing the start button.
     
  8. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The Leaf also seems to have its share of software problems. Some forum members have put a quick disconnect on the 12V battery so they can easily do a full reboot.
     
  9. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Tesla has over 3 years of experience with the Roadster firmware in customer hands and updating it. 3 years is a lot of experience in the world of software.
     
  10. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I'm not worried about Tesla software. If there were significant problems it would show up in the Roadster section.
     
  11. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    I don't think the Roadster's software is too comparable to the Model S's. I'm sure some of the Battery Management System pieces are shared but, I believe the Model S cells are very different (auto-grade?) from the ones (off-the-shelf, laptop-type?) in the Roadster. Then, there are a lot more software bits around the touchscreen and the in-dash display and how those control mechanical pieces such as the pano roof, the air suspension and such.

    And, in terms of personnel, I'm assuming that a much smaller group of very highly-qualified software engineers worked on the roadster back when Tesla was smaller as a company. As a (part-software) company grows rapidly, hiring standards tend to slip and it'd have been hard to attract the same quality of engineers with the same levels of experience particularly post-IPO. I can tell from what I see in the Silicon Valley in general (including Google and FB).

    So, being a s/w engineer myself, I'm being realistic when I say that it's likely that we'll have some software glitches early on; hopefully, they are very minor and are not on the scale of the Fisker Karma's.

    But, yes, experience with the roadster doesn't hurt in all this.
     
  12. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Also never had any software problems after over one year.
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I've had a similar concern and know that many at Tesla are paying attention to Fisker's situation and will hopefully avoid those pitfalls.

    The Roadster software is definitely much simpler than the Model S's (or the Karma's), so that can only be used as a mild indicator. I do, however, believe Tesla is much more on the ball. Fisker contracted out their "command center" which is the source of the majority of the bugs, so who do they really blame when stuff isn't working.

    I've said before that in my 2009 ride in the Model S prototype, the touchscreen was frozen and thus so was the speedometer (something that happens on occasion with current Karma drivers, a final production vehicle!). I have to say I was encouraged this weekend when I sat in one of the early Model S Betas (with limited functionality) that when the main touchscreen froze, the instrument cluster LCD still appeared functional. That kind of compartmentalization is a step in the right direction.

    I think that some bugs will be inevitable, but I have faith that Tesla won't ship until the car is ready for public consumption.
     
  14. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Also, speaking of the compartmentalization that Doug mentioned: I'm pretty sure the drivetrain is 100% separate from the touchscreen software. No crash in the Touchscreen or instrument cluster software will cripple the car in its basic driving capabilities (steering, braking, power delivery, shifting PRND, etc), from what I've heard.

    Apparently, Fisker didn't have that sort of compartmentalization. So Tesla's definitely made the right decision there.
     
  15. jory

    jory Member

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    i know both some of the early tesla engineers as well as one recent software hire. both are top notch and indicate that tesla has not lowered the bar on engineering talent.
     
  16. benji4

    benji4 Roadster 2.5 #0476

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    The Roadster's systems really don't seem to have any major problems. Once I got some strange tire presssure readings, but other than that everything has functioned perfectly for the first year, 6000 miles on the odometer.
     
  17. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Several weeks ago I got the "drive button problem" message for about 5 days in a row but the car worked perfectly fine. I just dismissed the error and kept right on driving. Was just about to bring it in when it stopped happening. I also had a TPMS error that was fixed - don't know if that was hardware or software.

    As others have said I'm confident in the driving portion of the software working just fine. Infotainment I expect some growing pains. I just hope they figure out a way to do OTA software updates for those folks that live far away from a service center.
     
  18. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    How are the headlights controlled on the Model S? The Karma has had some incidents of the headlights going out while driving because the command center randomly rebooted.
     
  19. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    That also indicates some lack of forethought in the hardware design. The headlights obviously shouldn't go out due to a reboot.
     
  20. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Let's see if I can recall this right. There are 3 stalks in all.

    1) Stalk 1 to the right is the PRND shifter.
    2) Stalk 2 to the top-left is for the turn signals and for headlights.
    3) Stalk 3 to the bottom-left is for cruise control.

    I should have paid more attention. Can anyone corroborate? Are there any good pics of the stalks from the weekend event?
     

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