TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Software locked 75kWh?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Chris P, Jul 27, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Chris P

    Chris P Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    Illinois
    I have a 2016 S75 which I bought as a software locked S70 and upgraded to the 75, and I have a reservation for a model 3. In the documents section of mytesla, the upgrade to 75kWh invoice is listed in the documents for the S, but ALSO in the documents section for the model 3. I wonder if this is any kind of indication that the model 3 will be a 75kWh battery that will be software locked to other configurations. (Or it could just be a glitch in the system that allows the invoice to appear in both places).
     
  2. kev1n

    kev1n Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    260
    Location:
    Bay Area
    its quite possible as they want to mass produce these things with minimal changes in options, it could be that they just introduce one battery like a 75 and then software lock to 60 or whatever for the lower battery
     
  3. eSpiritIV

    eSpiritIV Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Kevin, As this sounds reasonable to most of us, some others who say they have calculated the profit margins on putting a 75kwh battery in all M3's still think this would not be financially feasible to make a profit. We will see Friday
     
  4. boiler81

    boiler81 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Manson, WA
    I mention in another thread I started this morning, but yesterday a Tesla Sales rep in Bellevue WA told me (unofficially) that the base range would be 245mi, and the base battery would be 75kW. If both are true then the battery must be software limited on the base otherwise range would be much more.

    That being said, I don't really think they'd do software limiting, and believe the salesmen was confused about initial production battery size and not "base" battery size.
     
  5. CarlitoDoc

    CarlitoDoc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Yakima, WA
    For the purposes of manufacturing, I can see how "one size battery fits all" could work. But can they make a 75KWH battery cost-effective for this purposes??? Hard to say.
     
  6. Zaphod

    Zaphod Galaxy President (former)

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,261
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Most likely a glitch as they are most definitely updating various parts of the website.
     
  7. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    5,194
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Tesla has said nothing about the Model 3's battery size. And that's a good thing.

    However they did get rid of the 75D model S option. This article seems to think that Tesla is getting the Model S out of the Model 3's way.

    Tesla Dumps Model S 75 RWD to Make Space for the Model 3


    This time Saturday - we will all know.
     
  8. CarlitoDoc

    CarlitoDoc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Yakima, WA
    Well it would totally make sense that at fully loaded Model 3 would be close in cost to a Base Model S.......so the OP might be on to something.
     
  9. R.S

    R.S Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Munich, Bavaria, Germany
    The real question is if having two different battery options is more expensive, than giving out "free" 15 kWh.

    That will largely depend on how popular the 60kWh battery will be, but I don't think so. It isn't like production would be something very expensive, battery capacity on the other hand still is. Tesla never really kept software limited S and X for very long and that has a reason.

    And even if they could regain some of that money by unlocking it afterwards, a ramp up really isn't the best time to do things like that. Tesla will need the money now, not in 2-4 years.
     
  10. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    5,194
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    More expensive for who?
     
  11. R.S

    R.S Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Munich, Bavaria, Germany
    Tesla.
     
  12. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    5,065
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    If they indeed get the pack price to under $100/kWh then that difference might be as low as 15 kWh or $1500

    Depending on how they make the upcharge price and the penalty for upgrading after purchase, I could see them being able to swing this without much difficulty.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. R.S

    R.S Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Munich, Bavaria, Germany
    As long as the people don't upgrade, which they won't do for a year or so, the only real, financially sensible reason, would be if having that extra option would cost as much in manufacturing as those 15 kWh cost. I don't think that is the case, not even at $100 per kWh installed.

    Tesla already needed to drastically lower the upgrade price to make people do the upgrade to 75 kWh on the S and X, so I wouldn't bet on it . If the base vehicle actually is a SW limited 75, it'd be definitely worth more, than if it isn't, in my opinion. And it would make me reconsider getting the bigger battery version.
     
  14. mongo

    mongo Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Michigan
    Couple thoughts:

    A purchase of a 60 kWh battery is a done deal, and has no future revenue. A SW locked 60/75 battery has potential. At any point, the original purchaser can pay some more $$$ (pure profit depending on accounting) and have a 75 kWh battery.

    A traded in 60 kWh has no opportunity for improvement expect for an full pack replacement. When a 60/75 car is traded in to Tesla, it can be configured to 75 and resold at a higher price point. A 60 will always be the lowest margin vehicle.

    Say the initial material cost of an extra 15 kWh of battery is 3k (200/kWh) and money returns 2%. If the option price is 5k for a full 75, purchase of the upgrade before year 25 is a net profit. If the value of the upgrade depreciates at 5%, then as long as someone pays the premium before year 7, it is a net profit.

    A 60/75 will charge faster (less taper).
    A 60/75 can stat at 60 for longer by hiding degradation.
     
    • Like x 5
    • Disagree x 1
    • Love x 1
  15. phaduman

    phaduman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    San Jose
    In my mytesla page, I don't have an option to see documentation for my Model3 reservation. I can navigate to my Model S documentation section....
     
  16. Thomas Edison

    Thomas Edison Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    457
    Location:
    Portland
    This
     
  17. mongo

    mongo Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Michigan
    This discussion highlights an interesting differentiation between Tesla and traditional OEMs. OEMs with dealers only sell a car once, so resale is not a big factor (maybe OEM lease programs care). Tesla does it's own CPO, so it can gain revenue later in the vehicle's life. As such, adding value upfront can pay off in the long run.

    An OEM would be throwing away the differential cost of a 60 vs 75 by selling a 75 as a 60. Tesla can wait for a future sale to gain the additional revenue.
     
  18. CarlitoDoc

    CarlitoDoc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Yakima, WA
    Mongo :
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like x 1
  19. Big-T

    Big-T Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2015
    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    This is my wet dream here. I'll be able to charge the full 60kw all the time with no degradation, I can also save my limited cash for other upgrades and if I so choose down the road unlock it....Heck Tesla might even offer some sort of special price one day to unlock at a discount compared to today's prices (I believe that they did this recently with the software locked model S)
     
  20. Maximilien

    Maximilien Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    This may be possible as the new Model S75D seems to be software S85D, according to some reports.
     
    • Disagree x 1

Share This Page