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Solar city firings, allegations of discrimination (out of Market Action)

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by SteveG3, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. SteveG3

    SteveG3 Active Member

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  2. Reality

    Reality Member

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  3. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    #3 neroden, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
    Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if that particular office -- San Diego -- was that bad. It sounds like it's one local office. The real question is, did the *boss* of the San Diego office, who was apparently doing this *sugar*, get fired. Quite possibly given the amount of housecleaning done at SolarCity recently. I hope so.

    Unfortunately, it looks like Katzenellenbogen, who is specifically named and accused, hasn't been fired yet. Given that this lawsuit seems to have solid documentation, I hope Tesla wakes up and fires him ASAP.

    There is a recurring problem at Tesla where top execs drop the ball on communications, so I'm unfortunately not surprised that they didn't deal with the problem when they should have. It does seem like the only way to get Musk's attention is to file a lawsuit against Tesla, which is not how it should work, and the HR department is clearly terrible. Tesla needs to get their act together and start weeding out the harassers.

    If Musk is paying attention, it looks like there's enough evidence here: the correct thing to do is to *immediately* fire both Katzenellenbogen and the head of the San Diego office, and send in someone with a clean record to investigate and fire anyone else who was misbehaving. Followed by rehiring the whistleblowers -- since there seem to be a dozen whistleblowers who were driven out by the criminal harassers, and they seem like the sort of responsible people Tesla would *want*.

    These sound like *actual* whistleblowers -- the opposite of Mr. Tripp.

    Let's take this over to General Discussion.
     
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  4. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Did this stuff happen before or after the merger? My understanding is that Elon, and Tesla, didn't have any input on day-to-day operations at Solar City before the merger. (Elon was on the board, but would have had no control over the employees.)
     
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  5. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    #5 neroden, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2018
    Copied from Market Action since it isn't market action.

    Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if that particular office -- San Diego -- was that bad. It sounds like it's one local office. The real question is, did the *boss* of the San Diego office, who was apparently doing this *sugar*, get fired. Quite possibly given the amount of housecleaning done at SolarCity recently. I hope so.

    Unfortunately, it looks like Katzenellenbogen, who is specifically named and accused, hasn't been fired yet. Given that this lawsuit seems to have solid documentation, I hope Tesla wakes up and fires him ASAP.

    There is a recurring problem at Tesla where top execs drop the ball on communications, so I'm unfortunately not surprised that they didn't deal with the problem when they should have. It does seem like the only way to get Musk's attention is to file a lawsuit against Tesla, which is not how it should work, and the HR department is clearly terrible. Tesla needs to get their act together and start weeding out the harassers.

    If Musk is paying attention, it looks like there's enough evidence here: the correct thing to do is to *immediately* fire both Katzenellenbogen and the head of the San Diego office, and send in someone with a clean record to investigate and fire anyone else who was misbehaving. Followed by rehiring the whistleblowers -- since there seem to be a dozen whistleblowers who were driven out by the criminal harassers.

    These sound like *actual* whistleblowers -- the opposite of Mr. Tripp.

    Let's take this over to General Discussion.

    Mod: I thought this is sufficient to merit its own thread: Solar city firings, discrimination (out of Market Action) --ggr.
     
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  6. Rarity

    Rarity Member

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    It might be true, it might not be. In the past, Tesla has had outside investigators research such allegations (as you might remember with regard to Fremont), so I am guessing that it did so here. It's standard operating practice in Silicon Valley companies nowadays.
     
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  7. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    #7 neroden, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
    I would lay bets this is true. When you have *four* people going on the record with their names and providing copies of emails... including one who isn't part of the lawsuit... in addition to the witness who requested anonymity due to fear of retaliation... and it sounds exactly like a classic "harasser boss" situation...

    Yeah, I believe this. Tesla HR dropped the ball -- they're juggling a lot of stuff. They didn't pay attention to what were apparently many complaints from different employees about the San Diego office and they should have. They can make this right; they should.

    As far as I can tell, the previous allegations of isolated incidents of harassment at Fremont were also true; the "outside investigators" were a firm known for running coverups and didn't actually disprove any of the claims. (I don't know whether Tesla knew this when they hired them.)

    If I were at executive level in the company, I'd spend a couple of days reviewing the evidence in the form of the email records. Then, if the email shows what it appears to show (hostile enviroment spread by many of the people at the office, complaints by a number of people), I'd liquidate the entire San Diego office, and I'd offer other jobs to those and only those people who filed complaints. That sets an *example* because it says we *want* people who will speak up when they see a hostile environment.

    Tesla's chief legal counsel Todd Maron is incompetent and unfit for his job, so unfortunately I don't think he's going to pass on the correct recommendation to Musk.

    P.S. A notable point is that the stories we've heard are all consistent, the opposite of Tripp.
     
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  8. SteveG3

    SteveG3 Active Member

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    fwiw, I posted the article in market action as it is quite likely to get a ton of coverage imminently. ie, the existence of this report might have a large market action impact today, perhaps already has.

    had thought about putting it here first, as I’d agree the discussion of the contents of the report makes more sense here.
     
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  9. Reality

    Reality Member

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    I am a bear and i find it hard to believe they would have pulled a Wells Fargo level fraud like this. I am betting it is just some standard trying to ramp commissions up kind of thing.
     
  10. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    So after doing a little googling, it seems that Gaby Toledano, Chief People Officer -- hired only in May 2017 -- has basically said that she's not hearing about problems fast enough and admitted that HR is not dealing with them fast enough. I'm suspecting that she's understaffed for the project of cleaning out the bad apples before they spoil the whole barrel. (Sounds like San Diego SolarCity got spoiled already.)

    Ousting Arnnon Gashuri in favor of Gaby Toledano was probably specifically in response to all the harassment cases which he did not deal with. Hopefully Toledano can catch up on the backlog, but I'm not surprised she hasn't managed to stamp it all out yet -- it's hard when you walk in on a backlog of unhandled problems.
     
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  11. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    My father - up until his retirement - was a top executive in several large companies (VP to CEO range). He always said that he never worried that he would do anything immoral/illegal or that would otherwise get him into trouble. Nor so much really the people directly under him who he interacted with regularly. What kept him up at night was the thought that somewhere, someone in the organization might do something, and the whole company - including him, who the buck stopped at - would suffer as a result, perhaps greatly. A single misbehaving employee can do things that sic the SEC on you, ruin your public image, get people killed, cause an environmental disaster, or countless other things.

    You try to create an environment and policies to prevent this from happening. But when you have tens of thousands of employees...
     
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  12. FirebirdAlpha

    FirebirdAlpha Member

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    Would love bull perspective on...

    1. Ars Technica article, in which 3 former employees say SolarCity asked them to make fake customer accounts. They say they were fired when they raised it to Elon.

    Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales



    2. The TMC Spreadsheet shows that 62% of Model 3 responders had a defect in the first 30 days. 51% have had their car in for service at least once in the first 30 days.

    Seems like this could really hurt gross margins.

    Model 3 Order Tracking Spreadsheet
     
  13. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    See the post above.
     
  14. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    You're joking right? A TMC spreadsheet is hardly indicative of anything... TMC is a very SMALL portion of the Tesla ownership community yet far too many people here seem to think "everyone" knows about it... Case in point, I know 7 people now who own a Tesla and only 2 even know TMC exists and neither post here...

    If you're going to use a TMC spreadsheet to make your shorting decisions then by all means... I hope you loose it all...

    Jeff
     
  15. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    FTFY. Also, give the downsizing of former Solar City employees, the termination of employment is quite possibly independent from their complaints.

    Not a representative data set.

    I think you mean warranty cost. Which would still require Tesla to absorb the cost of replacement parts vs supplier.
     
  16. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    This, exactly. And the current report is from the San Diego office of SolarCity, which was probably not anybody's top priority, in an organization which expanded extremely fast (creating more chances to hire bad apples) without ramping up management as fast (making the people who are supposed to get rid of bad apples overworked).
     
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  17. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    Confused about the claims of fake or phantom revenue. At first it seemed like the classic corporate sales scam of inflating sales to get a larger bonus/commission.

    This part I could believe -- harassing bosses/environment using their power to silence those getting in the way of their inflated bonuses.

    Would have to be serious fraud to translate those fake sales to actual revenue. Like faking installs? Didn't think they recognized revenue until after install was complete. Would be nuts if it went that far. Seems far fetched though.
     
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  18. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Yeah, I would not expect this to ever have been material to revenue or to the merger. Tesla, IMO, bought SolarCity for three things:
    (1) The Buffalo factory deal
    (2) The stream of old lease income, which was being massively undervalued by Wall Street
    (3) Solar installers in a number of states
    It seemed very clear to me, from the discussion of "sales synergies", that they were going to shut down the direct sales side of SolarCity. Any numbers out of that side were an irrelevance.

    I am still concerned about HR not managing to stay on top of the problem of a local office boss creating a harassing environment. This sort of thing happens, you always get some harassing people who get promoted to bosses -- but that's where the boss's boss, or HR, is supposed to step in and remove the local boss. And that clearly didn't happen.
     
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  19. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    It puzzles me that there was no review by the accounting department on these fictitious sales that generated bonuses for the perpetrators. Moreover, a company like Tesla is supposed to have internal auditors that make periodic visits to all locations to perform testing. The external auditors rely partly on the work of the internal auditors. The most important function of both the internal audit and the accounting departments is to safeguard company assets. The internal audit department is separate from accounting. They should report directly to the board of directors.

    Back in the dark ages when I was a controller, we paid bonuses to selected individuals based upon varying factors. Management would request the bonus checks, and it was one of my duties to test and verify all the amounts and calculations. There was always a two-month lag between the bonus period and the payment. This allowed for all the accounting corrections to hit the books. When I found the occasional discrepancy, I went to the president and showed my findings for him to resolve before we printed the bonus check.
     
  20. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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