Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Solar happenings

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
supergrids are good to compensate spatial imbalance of supply & demand.
storage is good to compensate temporal imbalance of supply & demand.

I am convinced that in the long run, we need both as it shows to be the most cost-effective solution.
 
Here in the US, there is a move towards large-scale PV installations, like the ~800 MW Topaz project near San Luis Obispo. I had these small-area, high-capacity projects in mind when I expressed my concern about rapid fluctuations. If the generation is more distributed, I agree that there's less concern about rapid ramping -- less, but not none. All variable resources present new challenges to grid operators. EV charging that can vary in real time would be a valuable contributor to system balancing.
 
A cloud moving over an 800MW PV plant is comparable to a mid-sized coal plant going offline unexpectedly. It is a problem but not a new one.
I assume that another source of trouble is the ramp up/ramp down of PV generated power even if everything works OK: 2 hours after sun rise, there is a >3GW/hour gradient or >15% of installed PV capacity. Grid operators have to ramp down conventional generation accordingly.
More rooftop solar on east/west facing roofs would help here.
 
Last edited:
Here in the US, there is a move towards large-scale PV installations, like the ~800 MW Topaz project near San Luis Obispo.
Why is that? I posted some articles earlier in this thread about how large projects that were previously supposed to be solar thermal were going PV (because of falling panel prices). But if we're going PV, why favor not local and distributed over remote and concentrated? Must be plenty of real estate available on residential and factory roofs.
 
I think it is big investors going solar. Investing $100m in rooftop solar means negotiating with thousands of property owners, dealing with different installation setups, closing contracts for maintenance and deduction of earnings.
Instead they take a strip of desert land and plaster it with modules. Good prices on high volume material, low installation cost, easy maintenance and operation. Should make up for the higher cost of getting a 100MW grid link.
 
I think it is big investors going solar. Investing $100m in rooftop solar means negotiating with thousands of property owners, dealing with different installation setups, closing contracts for maintenance and deduction of earnings.
Instead they take a strip of desert land and plaster it with modules. Good prices on high volume material, low installation cost, easy maintenance and operation. Should make up for the higher cost of getting a 100MW grid link.
Yep, I think that covers it well. In short: cheaper real estate on roof tops doesn't offset the higher installation cost and the long-term control issues.
 
A cloud moving over an 800MW PV plant is comparable to a mid-sized coal plant going offline unexpectedly. It is a problem but not a new one.
Except that it's not the same. 1. Large PV plants don't just go offline because of a cloud. Output will be reduced by a fraction of it's capacity. 2. The larger the plant is, the lower the effect of clouds thanks to it's large foot print. 3. There are forecasting tools available that can let one plan ahead for cloud cover.

I assume that another source of trouble is the ramp up/ramp down of PV generated power even if everything works OK: 2 hours after sun rise, there is a >3GW/hour gradient or >15% of installed PV capacity. Grid operators have to ramp down conventional generation accordingly.
Yes, but luckily this is as predictable as watching the sun rise.

More rooftop solar on east/west facing roofs would help here.
East/west facing PV simply shifts production earlier/later trading off an increase in ramp rate in the morning or evening for a decrease in ramp rate for the opposite time of day. Adding more of both ends up making the ramp rate higher, not lower, while lowering overall efficiency.

Why is that? I posted some articles earlier in this thread about how large projects that were previously supposed to be solar thermal were going PV (because of falling panel prices). But if we're going PV, why favor not local and distributed over remote and concentrated? Must be plenty of real estate available on residential and factory roofs.
Rooftop installs have the drawback of being slightly different for each situation which increases costs slightly compared to large ground-mount installs. Although rooftop installations are the way to go for a number reasons - wider distribution which reduces variability, tends to place production closer to where the energy is used reducing transmission losses, reduces HVAC load on the building it's placed on, very little chance of adverse environmental affects that can arise from ground-mount installs, permitting process is generally much quicker/easier.

I think that once the current crop of large scale PV plants are built, we aren't likely to see too many more > 100MW ground mount systems - in particular because of the difficult in getting these systems approved and installed - it can literally takes years to get the first shovel in the ground where even large roof-top systems can get going in weeks.
 
Don't, or you will blow the substation! :cool:
This sort of fear mongering was spouted out by utilities in Germany. They spread fears of over-voltage if a complete street would install roof top solar. In the end, some transformers had to be replaced with models that were up to the task.
 
Nott too different from EV purchasers. Just add "The Patriot".
554807_472464569434018_717529279_n.jpg