Solar inverter died but PWs are still up, Is there a way to get the system to charge the PWs during off-peak from the Grid?

[SadSolar]

The solar side of my solar+PW system died today and I'm on TOU, which is going to suck when the system is down. Tesla won't come out until 8/30, so I'm looking at 6 weeks. I changed to Advanced Time-based-control mode, but can't seem to find a way to tell the system that the solar side is dead for the next 6 weeks and to recharge off the Grid during off-peak hours to use during peak (4 to 9)... I thought that was the big selling point of a PW, but haven't needed to do this before.
Thanks in advance.

 

[jjrandorin]

Not sure where you got the "big point of a PW was charging from the grid during off peak hours" because that has never been available if one has solar (legitimately).

There is a way to trick the system into charging from the grid by logging into it as an installer, and messing around with some settings customers are not supposed to mess with. I dont know those settings but perhaps someone who does will PM you with them (not post them here in this thread).

Even if they do, and you manage to charge your powerwalls that way, you would need to be aware of the fact that everything is logged, so tesla will know that you charged from the grid by using the installer interface. Whether they choose to do anything about it is a complete different story, but you would want to be aware that what you would be doing is changing settings we are not supposed to change, as end user customers.

 

[SadSolar]

Before they forced all solar to have powerwall (and vice-versa, I guess), the marketing material talked about charging during off-peak to use during peak.

obviously that is a no-no when I have a working solar panel... but right now, my panels are down and will be down until they come for their looksie on 8/30 (6 weeks from now)... in the interim, I'm paying a lot for the TOU peak hours that used to be covered by the panels. So I need the system to operate in the just-PW-no-Solar that the marketing used to mention. (Alas, I just checked and the updated PW pages on Tesla no longer mentions charging during off-peak explicitly, but only mentions solar+PW installs)

 

[SadSolar]

I found it, on their site here: Combining Systems | Powerwall Support

Powerwall & the Grid​

When Powerwall is installed without solar, it can charge from the grid if in Backup-only or Time-Based Control to support you during grid outages and to help you save money on your electricity bill. When Powerwall is installed with solar, it will not be able to charge from the grid.

Obviously once they fix my panels, I shouldn't be allowed to do this, but until then, I'm operating PW-without-solar until at least 8/30, and this PW+Grid combo should take over.
(if it matters, I purchased my system 'cash' and is not borrowing it from Tesla)

 

[getakey]

Before they forced all solar to have powerwall (and vice-versa, I guess), the marketing material talked about charging during off-peak to use during peak.

obviously that is a no-no when I have a working solar panel... but right now, my panels are down and will be down until they come for their looksie on 8/30 (6 weeks from now)... in the interim, I'm paying a lot for the TOU peak hours that used to be covered by the panels. So I need the system to operate in the just-PW-no-Solar that the marketing used to mention. (Alas, I just checked and the updated PW pages on Tesla no longer mentions charging during off-peak explicitly, but only mentions solar+PW installs)

Not sure who that marketing material may have been directed at and I don't recall seeing that. In the US, you cannot charge PWs from the grid if you have solar and claim the Tax credit (except under Storm Watch)

 

[SadSolar]

My other response is awaiting moderator approval, but I'm currently stuck with a PW-only install until they fix my solar, so shouldn't that mean I should be able to do the grid-charging in the interim, to both buffer from outages and save money by using off-peak power.

 

[jhn_]

If your inverter is from SolarEdge you can call their tech support and talk them into diagnosing the issue. If they determine you need a replacement they can send it to you. Then just schedule with Tesla to do the physical replacement. Can save you weeks of waiting. My inverter died in its first year and following that process my solar was not producing for only two weeks.

 

[jjrandorin]

I found it, on their site here: Combining Systems | Powerwall Support



Obviously once they fix my panels, I shouldn't be allowed to do this, but until then, I'm operating PW-without-solar until at least 8/30, and this PW+Grid combo should take over.
(if it matters, I purchased my system 'cash' and is not borrowing it from Tesla)

That quote is "installed without solar". You are not "installed without solar". You have solar, its just not working.

 

[getakey]

My other response is awaiting moderator approval, but I'm currently stuck with a PW-only install until they fix my solar, so shouldn't that mean I should be able to do the grid-charging in the interim, to both buffer from outages and save money by using off-peak power.

ok, I get it now. The problem is there is no way to set that up in the App

 

[jjrandorin]

My other response is awaiting moderator approval, but I'm currently stuck with a PW-only install until they fix my solar, so shouldn't that mean I should be able to do the grid-charging in the interim, to both buffer from outages and save money by using off-peak power.

In my estimation it does not mean that at all, because you have installed solar, its just not working (which is a different state than not having solar installed at all). It doesnt matter what any of us think, however, its what tesla thinks. Let us know if they enable that for you.

 

[Electrph]

If your inverter is from SolarEdge you can call their tech support and talk them into diagnosing the issue. If they determine you need a replacement they can send it to you. Then just schedule with Tesla to do the physical replacement. Can save you weeks of waiting. My inverter died in its first year and following that process my solar was not producing for only two weeks.

I think what @jhn_ posted is your best bet to possibly speed up the repair process with Tesla (perhaps inverter out or could at least eliminate it being inverter or gain some other info about problem from Solaredge)

 

[jjrandorin]

My other response is awaiting moderator approval

Btw, the forum software sometimes sends new posters to automatic moderation for various reasons (especially if they post links). I approved your post a while ago, but wanted you to know that I didnt put it on hold intentionally or something.

 

[SadSolar]

If your inverter is from SolarEdge you can call their tech support and talk them into diagnosing the issue. If they determine you need a replacement they can send it to you. Then just schedule with Tesla to do the physical replacement. Can save you weeks of waiting. My inverter died in its first year and following that process my solar was not producing for only two weeks.

Delta M8, but that's a great idea to look into...

 

[SadSolar]

In my estimation it does not mean that at all, because you have installed solar, its just not working (which is a different state than not having solar installed at all). It doesnt matter what any of us think, however, its what tesla thinks. Let us know if they enable that for you.

Spent the whole day looking into "no grid charge' mode and such... looks like there's some legislation in progress between PG&E/SCE and the state to try to allow grid-charging if you add a fancy meter that can tell you're not exporting off-peak grid power back out during peak.

 

[slcasner]

Spent the whole day looking into "no grid charge' mode and such... looks like there's some legislation in progress between PG&E/SCE and the state to try to allow grid-charging if you add a fancy meter that can tell you're not exporting off-peak grid power back out during peak.

Using electrons of different colors?

 

[RKCRLR]

Using electrons of different colors?

I don't understand what the problem is with purchasing electricity from a utility at a low price and selling it back to them at a higher price if the utility rates are truly reflective of their costs. Now, if they are charging rates that aren't reflective of their costs then I understand why they don't like it.

 

[jjrandorin]

I don't understand what the problem is with purchasing electricity from a utility at a low price and selling it back to them at a higher price if the utility rates are truly reflective of their costs. Now, if they are charging rates that aren't reflective of their costs then I understand why they don't like it.

So, what you are saying, effectively is, I can buy 1000 of something tonight from you, specifically, for 10 cents each, and you would be happy to buy that same exact thing back from me tomorrow at noon for 40 cents each, and that is a viable business model for you? Certainly sounds great for ME, but doesnt sound so great on your end.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

It's not clear, but did the OP confirm the inverter is totally dead? Have troubleshooting steps been performed in an effort to restart it? I have four inverters (3 Delta and one SolarEdge) and one of the Delta inverters has shut off half a dozen times over the past year. Normally this is on very hot days when the inverter is in direct sunlight. Five out of those six times, I was able to restart the inverter as soon as I noticed the issue and production resumed about 5 minutes later. The sixth time, the inverter wouldn't restart. I waited until the inverter was no longer in direct sunlight, restarted it again and production resumed. It's been running fine again for several weeks straight.

So it's possible that if the inverter isn't totally dead, the OP might be able to get their system working again by restarting the inverter.

 

[RKCRLR]

So, what you are saying, effectively is, I can buy 1000 of something tonight from you, specifically, for 10 cents each, and you would be happy to buy that same exact thing back from me tomorrow at noon for 40 cents each, and that is a viable business model for you? Certainly sounds great for ME, but doesnt sound so great on your end.

PG&E is charging me 40 cents during the day for the exact same thing they charge me 10 cents for at night. The reason they give is because it costs them more to produce during the day than at night. And I have no other choices to buy from. If I had other choices to purchase from then it would be a different story but they have a monopoly in my area. And I'm not allowed to disconnect if I don't want their service.

They should just treat it the same way they treat solar at true-up and only credit me at wholesale rates for excess production/storage at the end of the year. And they should make the NBCs and connection costs more reflective of their actual costs. And if I have excess annual production they are getting a deal from me for only being charged ~$0.03/kWh for storage. I imagine it would cost them more than that to put in and maintain their own storage facility. That would remove an incentive for trying to make money off the system.

 

[wjgjr]

So, what you are saying, effectively is, I can buy 1000 of something tonight from you, specifically, for 10 cents each, and you would be happy to buy that same exact thing back from me tomorrow at noon for 40 cents each, and that is a viable business model for you? Certainly sounds great for ME, but doesnt sound so great on your end.

It's perfectly reasonable if you are unwilling or unable to store that thing for the night given the cost of storage. The transaction can be framed as I am willing to store your product for you a cost of 30 cents per unit. If you are unable or unwilling to store it yourself and are also unable to produce a new unit instead, it makes sense to pay somebody else to store it.

Of course, there is a lot more complexity here since it is a public utility and since a large enough deployment of batteries could cause a material change in demand for newly-generated power and would likely shrink the hypothetical 30 cent gap. So it would make sense to design programs in a way that they would tend to minimize overall cost to ratepayers and, ideally, also produce the cleanest mix of fuel possible.