Solar Only - Pennsylvania PECO Utility - Switch to TOU Rate Plan?

[Rccarps2]

Figured I would lean on the TOU experts for this one. Have a 11.9kW system, installed last year. Currently on a flat rate from my utility with full net metering. Have the option to go on to a new TOU plan that just started being offered in the last few months. Want to get some opinions if it would be beneficial. A quick look and I think it would be.

Current Specs/Details

• 11.9kW (no PWs)
• 260 azimuth - 34 degree pitch
• PVWatts - 13,261kWh/annual
• Annual historic usage (pre-solar) 22kWh (spread pretty consistently throughout the daytime hours)
  • Average house base load is 1.1-1.3kW 24/7/365
• Current flat PECO rate $0.145kWh w/full net metering
• No EV (maybe a PHEV within a year)
• Heat and HW is propane
• Everything else is electric (drier, cooking, pool heat pump)

TOU Rate Plan

• Peak Weekdays: (2 p.m. – 6 p.m.) - $0.283kWh
• Off-Peak Weekdays: (6 a.m. – 2 p.m. & 6 p.m. – 12 a.m. ) - $0.122kWh
• Off-Peak Weekends and Holidays(1): (6 a.m. – 12 a.m.) - $0.122kWh
• Super Off-Peak All Days: (12 a.m. – 6 a.m.) $0.106kWh
• Full net metering at TOU price at time of generation.

With the orientation of my panels, I generate the majority of my electricity from around noon through the early evening. Peak is around 3pm. Below is a good representation of a decent, recent day.

I will never generate more than I use on an annual basis. My panel orientation gives me peak output from mid-day through late afternoon. PECO will bank all the excess generation at the actual TOU rates, which makes me think its a no brainer to let me build up excess kW's at the peak $0.283kWh and get the payout at the yearly true up.

Right now all my excess generation during the day is saving me $0.145kWh (which washes out monthly because I am a net user) vs potential value of $0.283kWh, which would be banked until true up.

I can opt out at any time and go back to my original rate plan. Only downside is I can't rejoin the TOU program for 12 months (prevents seasonal hoppers).

Verbaige from the program - "Any excess kilowatt hours remaining in that TOU Pricing Period will continue to accumulate until the end of the PJM planning period ending May 31 of each year. On an annual basis, the Company will compensate the TOU customer generator for accumulated excess generation at the full retail value based on the applicable TOU Pricing Option rate and TSC rate in effect at the time the excess electricity was generated."

This may be simple for you folks that have been dealign with crazy NEM and TOU programs. But for me, I want to make sure I am not missing anything obvious.

Thanks,
RC

 

[Buyman3375]

Hi there. I'm a PECO user as well, but have no solar yet. I'm in the midst of proposals etc...

However, I'm a little bit surprised about your PECO rates. I thought we're all in the same boat and then I checked my rates online to find the following:

FYI - I'm located in Chester County.

 

[Rccarps2]

Hi there. I'm a PECO user as well, but have no solar yet. I'm in the midst of proposals etc...

However, I'm a little bit surprised about your PECO rates. I thought we're all in the same boat and then I checked my rates online to find the following:

FYI - I'm located in Chester County.

View attachment 790945

I am also in Chester County. The rates you show on the TOU chart is the Generation portion only. They don't include the distribution portion, which is a fixed rate of $0.07388/kWh.

The hope for me is that by swapping to the TOU, with the vast majority of my solar generation is done at the TOU Peak price, will allow me to bank with PECO all the excess (beyond my consumtion at that time) at the high rate. Since they offer 1 for 1 net meetering, I hope to bank alot of credits at the $0.283/kWh rate (Generation plus transmission). Which should pay out at True-Up at full value ($0.283/kWh). Plus the added benefit of getting the lower rate (than I am currently paying on the fixed plan) during the rest of my usage throughout the evening/night/morning. Even on cloudy days, I seem to be able to at least cover my 2pm-6pm usage from my solar system.

I am currently "Pending TOU enrollement". So the details below are from my current, fixed rate plan. The "Peco Electric Delivery" portion I assume wil remain the same on the TOU plan. With only the "Electric Supply" portion changing to break down usage and rates during the various time periods.

From my March bill (2/15-3/16).

 

[Buyman3375]

I am also in Chester County. The rates you show on the TOU chart is the Generation portion only. They don't include the distribution portion, which is a fixed rate of $0.07388/kWh.

The hope for me is that by swapping to the TOU, with the vast majority of my solar generation is done at the TOU Peak price, will allow me to bank with PECO all the excess (beyond my consumtion at that time) at the high rate. Since they offer 1 for 1 net meetering, I hope to bank alot of credits at the $0.283/kWh rate (Generation plus transmission). Which should pay out at True-Up at full value ($0.283/kWh). Plus the added benefit of getting the lower rate (than I am currently paying on the fixed plan) during the rest of my usage throughout the evening/night/morning. Even on cloudy days, I seem to be able to at least cover my 2pm-6pm usage from my solar system.

I am currently "Pending TOU enrollement". So the details below are from my current, fixed rate plan. The "Peco Electric Delivery" portion I assume wil remain the same on the TOU plan. With only the "Electric Supply" portion changing to break down usage and rates during the various time periods.

From my March bill (2/15-3/16).

View attachment 790952

Thank you for the detailed explanation - I just learned something new!

I'm with you on the TOU - as soon as we have our solar up, we're going to switch. And with the planned battery backup, I am not worried of clouds etc.
It'll be nice to know that the battery will be able to cover 4 hours of peak easily and probably throughout the night as well. And if not, the super off-peak will help limit the costs at least. My plan is to get paid by PECO, come May 31st 2023! haha

Also - I have started to look into programming my thermostat and pool-pump. So I can keep them off between 2pm and 6pm. Shouldn't matter too much.
But during that time, my "planned" 25kW system should nicely feed the grid and give me a good payback...

FYI - the bill below is the highest we ever had - from October last year. That's why I want Solar really bad right now!

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Hi there. I'm a PECO user as well, but have no solar yet. I'm in the midst of proposals etc...

However, I'm a little bit surprised about your PECO rates. I thought we're all in the same boat and then I checked my rates online to find the following:

FYI - I'm located in Chester County.

View attachment 790945

My rates are in line with what you have. OPs rates don’t seem like they would make it worthwhile.

 

[Rccarps2]

My rates are in line with what you have. OPs rates don’t seem like they would make it worthwhile.

Not sure where your math plays out. If I assume just 60% of my generation is during the new TOU peak rate (which is probably conservative after a years data), that would put me at a net gain of $1,100 in savings. .6x13,610(0.283-0.145)=$1,126.

Thats not even calculating the additional savings from the various lower off peak rates for everthing from 6pm to 2pm.

So just a "rough" guess gives me a minimum of $1,500 addtional savings a year by going TOU. I would say its worthwhile.

 

[Rccarps2]

Thank you for the detailed explanation - I just learned something new!

I'm with you on the TOU - as soon as we have our solar up, we're going to switch. And with the planned battery backup, I am not worried of clouds etc.
It'll be nice to know that the battery will be able to cover 4 hours of peak easily and probably throughout the night as well. And if not, the super off-peak will help limit the costs at least. My plan is to get paid by PECO, come May 31st 2023! haha

Also - I have started to look into programming my thermostat and pool-pump. So I can keep them off between 2pm and 6pm. Shouldn't matter too much.
But during that time, my "planned" 25kW system should nicely feed the grid and give me a good payback...

FYI - the bill below is the highest we ever had - from October last year. That's why I want Solar really bad right now!

View attachment 791008

Following up on this. Here is a summary of my first bill on TOU rates. Very good generation month.

 

[Buyman3375]

Following up on this. Here is a summary of my first bill on TOU rates. Very good generation month.

Thank you for this!

I am still wondering what will happen, if you have banked more energy throughout the year than you use. Because according to PECO, you should get paid at the end of their fiscal year, on May31st. If this is really true, than you could actually "make money" and get paid every year - "IF" you produce more than you need of course...

 

[Beno Filis]

Rccarps2, curious how you May31st payout went down. Did you get the full $.283 / excess peak KWh or less? I'm trying to figure out if they remove the distribution cost in the reimbursement.

 

[Rccarps2]

Rccarps2, curious how you May31st payout went down. Did you get the full $.283 / excess peak KWh or less? I'm trying to figure out if they remove the distribution cost in the reimbursement.

My May 2022 payout was zero. At that time I was still running the standard flat rate plan and didn't have any credits banked.

Now this year will be different. I am on PECO's TOU plan, and as of my current bill I have over 1,100 kWh banked for peak (2-6pm @ $0.30288/kWh). I won't burn through them before the May true up. Will update once I get through the end of May.

 

[romashkoo]

Following up on this. Here is a summary of my first bill on TOU rates. Very good generation month.

I know this is an old topic, but I am curious as I am considering switching to the TOU plan and do not understand pricing fully - am I reading it right and there is no distribution charge per kW in TOU pricing? Thanks!

 

[Rccarps2]

I know this is an old topic, but I am curious as I am considering switching to the TOU plan and do not understand pricing fully - am I reading it right and there is no distribution charge per kW in TOU pricing? Thanks!

No, they still get you on the distribution. However, you get the distribution credit for any kWh you send to the grid, regardless of time period. They dump all those credits into a bucket and apply them against your usage during any of the TOU periods. Below is a screenshot of my most recent bill.

I used from the grid 869kWh and sent them 629kWh. I only had to pay distribution on the difference which was 240kWh.

If you generate more than you use annually, PECO will bank generation charges, which I assume is paid at true up. I don't, but here is the verbiage from the bill.

"Your Previous Banked Distribution kWh is 0. Your
Current Change in Banked Distribution kWh is 0. Your
current Adjustment to Banked Distribution kWh due to
settlement is 0. Your Remaining Banked Distribution
kWh is 0."

 

[romashkoo]

Thank you so much! The language of all of this is pretty vague and seeing real bill examples is very helpful. The only place I could find some real examples of bills.

 

[Rccarps2]

Thank you so much! The language of all of this is pretty vague and seeing real bill examples is very helpful. The only place I could find some real examples of bills.

Here is a follow-up with a bill with Peco's true up. All my banked credits have been zeroed out and credited to me at actual rates (not discounted).

I guess I could request a check for the credit ($745.88), but I am a net consumer through the summer/fall (A/C and pool heat pump big users) so I will just let the credits roll month to month to get consumed. This is my first full year on the TOU rates, so there is a possibility I can add to the credit over the 1-2 months enough that I can just basically zero out my electric bill until this time next year, giving me an ongoing monthly electric bill of practically nothing except the customer charge.

 

[jbardige]

Is anyone able to explain the math used to calculate the total banked kWh for Peco customers with solar on the TOU plan? My most recent Peco bill states:
- Current change in banked Peak: 252 kWh
- Current change in banked Off-Peak: 352 kWh
- Current change in banked Distribution: 300 kWh (not the sum of Peak and Off-Peak)

The "Current change in banked Distribution" appears to be weighted, i.e. a banked Peak kWh does not equal a banked Off-Peak kWh. I talked to someone at Peco about this. They were nice and helpful but wasn't able to explain how the calculation works.

 

[Mayer]

Glad to see other folks here from Chester County PA!

Solar installed one year ago, 15.3 kWh.
We bank in winter but owe small amount in summer.
Now in midst of adding two PW2s.
I’m pleased with net metering.
Not yet enrolled in TOU.
TOU seems confusing, too confusing perhaps.
Is it worth it?
Any reading material out there like “TOU for Dummies”?
I’ve read what PECO offers a few times but seems somewhat circular.
Is it a no brainer to enroll in TOU or more of a “depends” situation?

Here is my current Bill if it is revealing to any degree:

 

[Mayer]

I “applied” for TOU.
Takes 30-90 days for application to process.
My guess is it’s nearly a wash since I already don’t draw from the grid during peak hours but PECO’s analysis claimed I will save $400 per year.
We will see.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Is anyone able to explain the math used to calculate the total banked kWh for Peco customers with solar on the TOU plan? My most recent Peco bill states:
- Current change in banked Peak: 252 kWh
- Current change in banked Off-Peak: 352 kWh
- Current change in banked Distribution: 300 kWh (not the sum of Peak and Off-Peak)

The "Current change in banked Distribution" appears to be weighted, i.e. a banked Peak kWh does not equal a banked Off-Peak kWh. I talked to someone at Peco about this. They were nice and helpful but wasn't able to explain how the calculation works.

View attachment 965148

Super off-peak energy use? I assume you charge your EV at night so are drawing quite a bit during the night.

 

[Rccarps2]

Is anyone able to explain the math used to calculate the total banked kWh for Peco customers with solar on the TOU plan? My most recent Peco bill states:
- Current change in banked Peak: 252 kWh
- Current change in banked Off-Peak: 352 kWh
- Current change in banked Distribution: 300 kWh (not the sum of Peak and Off-Peak)

The "Current change in banked Distribution" appears to be weighted, i.e. a banked Peak kWh does not equal a banked Off-Peak kWh. I talked to someone at Peco about this. They were nice and helpful but wasn't able to explain how the calculation works.

View attachment 965148

Distribution charges from all three TOU time periods get bucketed, and not split out like the generation.

So for example, your super off-peak usage will pull from your banked distribution charges, the same as any of the other TOU periods. The distribution charge is flat across all the TOU periods, so it doesn't matter when then get consumed/applied to.

In your situation above, it looks like you used 304 kWh in super off-peak usage. Which pulls 304 kWh of distribution charges from your bank.

 

[jbardige]

Distribution charges from all three TOU time periods get bucketed, and not split out like the generation.

So for example, your super off-peak usage will pull from your banked distribution charges, the same as any of the other TOU periods. The distribution charge is flat across all the TOU periods, so it doesn't matter when then get consumed/applied to.

In your situation above, it looks like you used 304 kWh in super off-peak usage. Which pulls 304 kWh of distribution charges from your bank.

Yes, that's exactly right! Thank you for helping me understand the math!!

It's not intuitive for me to be billed for the Generation of Super Off-Peak usage when we're producing a surplus overall. But the amount I'm billed (the Super Off-Peak generation rate) is presumably less than the value of solar produced.

Does anyone know the value of surplus solar produced? Regardless of whether it's produced during Off-Peak or Peak, is it banked at a kWh (1 kWh of Distribution and 1kWh of Generation)? How would a bill credit work in May if I do have a surplus?