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Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?
- Thread starter jdwuk
- Start date
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Thanks, faulty memory! They are in the process of auctioning the offshore areas. I mistook "Done" for "coming soon" - been driving a Musk-motor for too long
Ah, I did know what that was ... I read it as a specific investment vehicle Doh!
Before tax ... you have to withdraw some profit to pay your electricity bill ... and pay tax.
Assuming (your) 10.49% return, and 3% inflation, then at 20% tax after 16 years interest will be less than electricity bill, and for a 40% tax payer ... its year 1! Repeating my earlier point - PV "investment" is index linked, its a hedge against inflation of electricity bill.
There has been amazingly low inflation since the 90's ... but I remember the 70's and 80's where it kept above 5%. I think for investments it is easy for recent trends to colour thinking ... since 1996 the inflation = basically nothing - a year at 3.5%, and one at 3.8%, all the rest under 3%. This year? probably 7% ... and for the next year or two ... (UK government says ... I say "Longer")
It all depends on when you invest (notwithstanding that a lifetime investment will average out ... but what we are trying to illustrate here is invest to earn the money to pay the electricity bill, instead of buying PV panels)
Here's how Inflation vs. S&P looked over a period of 25 years in the 70's / 80's - since 1996 only 2 years over 3%
... 1968 - 1992 only 3 years under 5% Basically S&P had only just got back to the start point at the end of 25 years ...
Your grandchildren will tell you "You knew there was a problem and you did nothing about it"
ACarneiro
Active Member
We really do need to stop drinking the Elon Kool-AidI mistook "Done" for "coming soon" - been driving a Musk-motor for too long
I agree with you init6
I’m in the Algarve, with 300 sunny days a year.
A decent PV installation is around €9K, but the savings only €600 per year.
Far better to put the €9K into a decent S and P tracker such as Vangaurd. Then it probably will deliver more reward than the solar panels will.
if you were bold and put it into Bitcoin (just suggesting, not recommending) You would probably get 25% annual return.
One poster above wrote; “I’m on track to break even in about 10 years.”
Imagine his return if hed put the money straight into a Vanguard tracker SIPP or similar.
Why faff with solar panels?
I bought a new kitchen. (Response) Wow, love the marble counter tops.
I bought a new car (Response) Love the colour.
I bought a heat pump/house battery/solar panels (Response) How long is the payback?
For many (me included) reducing CO2 footprint and hedging against energy costs rising is more important than considering these an investment. Improving your home and comfort levels is not an investment- it's home improvement.
More sun today than I can deal with but at least the the washing machine has eaten some, the tumble drier is running, the Outlander is charging, the water is heating and I’m just about to top up the Tesla before heading to Thetford Forest for a picnic.
Powerwall is already at 96% and dropping.
yesterday was 46kWh. Hope to beat it today!
Powerwall is already at 96% and dropping.
yesterday was 46kWh. Hope to beat it today!
ACarneiro
Active Member
Doing towels today. Sun drying turns them into sandpaperTumble dryer? On a sunny day?
Would be more carbon-sparing to just feed the grid, IMHO
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Is the colour of your "heat pump/house battery/solar panels" grey?
I'm tackling this using talking-it-up ...
Put 40kWh into the car yesterday. Because talking-it-up I'll go with 4 miles / kWh ... so 160 miles.
At 30 MPG that would be 5 gallons, at £1.50 / L so £35-quid. If I do that on, say, 50% of the days in 8 months of the year that have "good sun" that's £4,250 quid a year ...
... not to mention that I filled the PowerWalls too, so no Leccy bill for, say, 90% of 8 months a year - so electricity bill is 40% of "before".
Is the colour of your "heat pump/house battery/solar panels" grey?
I'm tackling this using talking-it-up ...
Put 40kWh into the car yesterday. Because talking-it-up I'll go with 4 miles / kWh ... so 160 miles.
At 30 MPG that would be 5 gallons, at £1.50 / L so £35-quid. If I do that on, say, 50% of the days in 8 months of the year that have "good sun" that's £4,250 quid a year ...
... not to mention that I filled the PowerWalls too, so no Leccy bill for, say, 90% of 8 months a year - so electricity bill is 40% of "before".
Grey is so last year, dahling. Mine are off-white, dontchaknow
RedMod3
Member
It was supposed to be cloudy today, but the PW took in 80p of electricity in the cheap period last night. PW is now at 73% and charging at 2kW. Smart car will be charged today as the Tesla is full.
You can't put a value on monitoring all the free power and being smug about how much $ is being saved.
You can't put a value on monitoring all the free power and being smug about how much $ is being saved.
Normally they over-size the panels vs the inverter. Most inverters will let you oversize to 150%. eg. 5.2kW panels on a 3.7kW inverter. As panels lose about 15% power in full sun (due to being less efficient at 50C vs the 25C lab conditions) it's good to over-size, and you'll also get more in "less than ideal" conditions (ie. cloudy british weather). I had a 4kW array with my original 3.6kW fit inverter from 7 years ago. But have now added 3.5kW onto an additonal 2.5kW inverter. (3.5kw as 1.2kW is NE facing, 2.3kW is SW facing). I can now peak around 6kW in full sun off both arrays!My 3kW array (3.7kW inverter) has peaked out at just 3.3kW today because the panels have got so hot in the sun, but overall, I'm still generating 4.4kW; my Tesla is being charged at 2kW, my PW at 0.8kW (now 92% full) and the Boss's casserole is being slow cooked for free for this evening.
This is why I faff with solar panels, it makes me feel good, and I'm saving much money and the planet.
The G99 as I understand it is when you have an inverter installed that can do >3.6kw (16amps at 230v). I believe there's a £300 fee for submitting that form. Covers the DNO's costs if they have to upgrade their system to cope with the possibility of 3.6kW flowing into the grid if you're not using any electricity in the house. Older DNO systems can't cope with a large amount flowing the "wrong" way! Your installer (doing whatever size), and being MCS credited has to submit the solar install anyway - it's just free if it's <=3.6kW. With an EV, the price of electricity, and if you got room on the roof it's definitely worth installing as much solar as you can afford. Though usually best if the solar panels are 120-150% the rating of your inverter. And I recommend the newer half-cell panels. Some have ridiculously high power - close to 400-500w per panel now! I got 4x JA Solar 385s, 10 JA Solar 325's and 14 LG 285s' across 2 inverters.
Stuart Watson
Member
Can you not see this ?I bought a new kitchen. (Response) Wow, love the marble counter tops.
I bought a new car (Response) Love the colour.
I bought a heat pump/house battery/solar panels (Response) How long is the payback?
For many (me included) reducing CO2 footprint and hedging against energy costs rising is more important than considering these an investment. Improving your home and comfort levels is not an investment- it's home improvement.
Really ?
A kitchen / car / yacht (name anything pleasurable) …..gives simultaneously “playful” family fun and function.
You’d have to have a rather “geeky” sense to get “pleasure” from owning PV. Does your wife know what it cost ? Your children?
I simply think, many of you “PV fans” are “ a tad naive” about investing! I’m especially baffled that many of you live somewhere it’s cloudy most of the time and pisses down with rain.
You all have a “fiduciary” type obligation not to waste your families budget.
Do please let me know when the price of PV reduces to the point where it’s worth considering
.It will, I’m sure. But for me, the maths doesn’t support it.
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i know.. but have you seen the petrol price recently? it's 1.60 if you are luckyIs the colour of your "heat pump/house battery/solar panels" grey?
I'm tackling this using talking-it-up ...
Put 40kWh into the car yesterday. Because talking-it-up I'll go with 4 miles / kWh ... so 160 miles.
At 30 MPG that would be 5 gallons, at £1.50 / L so £35-quid. If I do that on, say, 50% of the days in 8 months of the year that have "good sun" that's £4,250 quid a year ...
... not to mention that I filled the PowerWalls too, so no Leccy bill for, say, 90% of 8 months a year - so electricity bill is 40% of "before".
Ah, but you’re missing one point. When we suffer the next named storm, which we do with regularity. If the power goes down, which it did last time, my Powerwalls will just carry on and I’ll be oblivious to it. As for the electricity budget, keeping that to a minimum is part of the fun of ownership!Can you not see this ?
Really ?
A kitchen / car / yacht (name anything pleasurable) …..gives simultaneously “playful” family fun and function.
You’d have to have a rather “geeky” sense to get “pleasure” from owning PV. Does your wife know what it cost ? Your children?
I simply think, many of you “PV fans” are “ a tad naive” about investing! I’m especially baffled that many of you live somewhere it’s cloudy most of the time and pisses down with rain.
You all have a “fiduciary” type obligation not to waste your families budget.
Do please let me know when the price of PV reduces to the point where it’s worth considering
It will, I’m sure. But for me the maths doesn’t support it.
…and yes, my wife knows what it cost. But then I know what her hairdresser charges too!
ACarneiro
Active Member
Ah, don’t underestimate the solar production in the UK.
Granted, a lot less than what I’d be able to get in Portugal but I’m still generating a bit over 8MWh per year, which is a significant proportion of my annual consumption.
Mind you, the depths of winter are really depressing…
Well, possibly. But they key to this is… what exactly constitutes “waste”?
I’ve made my point above, I think you may well just have to accept that us “geeky types” put value in things that you and your family do not.
Intricate tapestry of life, and all that
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
And I'm baffled that you (presumably?) have wall-to-wall sunshine compared to UK, and although shorter summer days, much more consistent Sushine pver the 12 months of the year ... and you haven't done it ...
Quite apart from the much better sunshine for PV in Portugal your 10% compound interest for ... decades? ... should mean you are rolling in dosh
The cost of having to fix the planet, retrospectively, rather than in good time?
Thanks dude, but I'll spend my money how I see with without worrying too much if some random on a forum has a fit of the vapours. I'll also not require lecturing on my "fiducary obligations".Can you not see this ?
Really ?
A kitchen / car / yacht (name anything pleasurable) …..gives simultaneously “playful” family fun and function.
You’d have to have a rather “geeky” sense to get “pleasure” from owning PV. Does your wife know what it cost ? Your children?
I simply think, many of you “PV fans” are “ a tad naive” about investing! I’m especially baffled that many of you live somewhere it’s cloudy most of the time and pisses down with rain.
You all have a “fiduciary” type obligation not to waste your families budget.
Do please let me know when the price of PV reduces to the point where it’s worth considering
It will, I’m sure. But for me, the maths doesn’t support it.
Once you fulfil the base level of Maslow's hierarchy, everything that you purchase is an emotional choice. Did you buy those natty sunglasses that you are sporting in your profile picture purely based on their utility at shading your eyes? Where they the cheapest possible option? Or did you try a few on and decided which you liked the best?
Yes, my other half knows exactly what they cost (what world are you living in?). I didn't have to justify them to her...we sat down and I explained what I wanted to achieve. She gets more pleasure than I do from using our "free" electricity to the point where I have to tell her to just do whatever without having to check the battery first.
I think that you need to relax a tad and realise that others have the freedom to make different choices than you and for different reasons. It might blow yuour mind when you realise that those choices are just as valid as your own, seemingly, quite narrow viewpoint.
PITA
Model 3 Performance
Can you not see this ?
Really ?
A kitchen / car / yacht (name anything pleasurable) …..gives simultaneously “playful” family fun and function.
You’d have to have a rather “geeky” sense to get “pleasure” from owning PV. Does your wife know what it cost ? Your children?
I simply think, many of you “PV fans” are “ a tad naive” about investing! I’m especially baffled that many of you live somewhere it’s cloudy most of the time and pisses down with rain.
You all have a “fiduciary” type obligation not to waste your families budget.
Do please let me know when the price of PV reduces to the point where it’s worth considering
It will, I’m sure. But for me, the maths doesn’t support it.
Your call...
Let's hope you can get your money out if there's a monetary collapse in the West due to Hyper Inflation.
My family, as an example, love our Air Conditioning (as it's powered from Solar), love being able to use things around the house without me shouting 'turn it off'... because we have an abundance of energy and it's really no problem.
Love the fact we can fill our Tesla car for 'joyrides' powered with surplus Solar Power during Summertime.
Nobody, gets grumpy about my bank balance... not that there's reason to anyways... but they do think it's a good idea, especially when my Wife was cooking dinner one Sunday lunchtime, and my Gateway App notified us we were on Backup Power, due to a Grid Outage.
I just got a kiss on the cheek, and told "clever..." ... she hadn't even noticed, and we all lived happily ever after
RedMod3
Member
Well, I spent over £2k on two 24 port 10Gb switches. No cost justification needed as I just wanted and needed ultrafast network connections in our residential property for my computer and other devices. This spend gives me much pleasure.Can you not see this ?
Really ?
A kitchen / car / yacht (name anything pleasurable) …..gives simultaneously “playful” family fun and function.
You’d have to have a rather “geeky” sense to get “pleasure” from owning PV. Does your wife know what it cost ? Your children?
I simply think, many of you “PV fans” are “ a tad naive” about investing! I’m especially baffled that many of you live somewhere it’s cloudy most of the time and pisses down with rain.
You all have a “fiduciary” type obligation not to waste your families budget.
Do please let me know when the price of PV reduces to the point where it’s worth considering
It will, I’m sure. But for me, the maths doesn’t support it.
