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Solar Panels UK - is it worth it?

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It irks me to think that I’d now need to spend thousands getting a 4 years old house brought up to Passiv Haus standards (if that’s even possible)….

According to Passive Haus consultant I spoke to energy saving on a brand new Taylor Wimpey Barratt type new build would be of the order of 75%. Conversations I've had about cost of retrofit were more around Period properties, but the costs are eyewatering. A terraced 3-bed house Victorian house (i.e. party walls on either side don't need any treatment, because they are "warm" on the far side) - would be "wrap" insulate Front and Back, and Roof / Floor, new windows, cost is about £200K. House is same footprint ... so, unlike adding a conservatory, doesn't offer "any more for your money" to a future buyer. The payback is like sometime-never. Comfort and health benefits are significant, but most people don't prioritise spending on living longer rather than enjoying life! I just can't see that happening, unless there is a magical change from materials science, or robots that can do the work!

Passive Haus needs the house to be (very!) airtight, and have mechanical ventilation. Pipes for that are big (i.e. air ventilation pipes compared to water pipes for radiators / UFH), so quite hard to accommodate on a retrofit. The Ventilation system then has heat recovery (heat exchanger) so the outgoing air, from wet rooms / kitchen, pre-heats fresh incoming (or cools, in Summer) to living quarters - which is where significant savings come from, but also health benefits. Pollen filter in the ventilation etc., and significant number of air-changes-per-hour for the house, so air feels "fresh". You can open a window if you want to, but there is no need - that just lets in cold air in winter / hot air in summer which makes the house temperature worse, along with flies, pollen, etc. Also, adding AirCon to the ventilation system for Summer is an easy add-on. because Passive Haus house is so well insulated that it needs very little heat / cooling energy, only a small unit is needed, so that there is little reason not to have it - the benefits to Comfort are significant, and impact on Wallet tiny

I think its a hard job for a retrofit ... hence why I feel so strongly that Building Regs should mandate Passive Haus (and, yeah, PV facing South not North!!, better still East + West). That apart, my advice to anyone considering a new build purchase is to find a way to buy a Passive Haus instead of "Building Regs". Its hard for me to explain just how much benefit we have had from our Passive Haus. We did it because we thought we should ... but having lived in it for 6+ years I can now see that the benefits are significant more than just reducing heating fuel / cost.
 
When we bought a Cala home in 2015 it came with a MHRV system, which was both excellent and annoying in three ways.

The first being it was audiable at night time even on the lowest setting which took some getting used to, the second, the kitchen extractor just vented into the kitchen with the hope that the MHRV extractor would then pick-up the cooking smoke but it didn't work very well in a tiny kitchen, and the third, it didn't have a summer-vent setting, so in the summer it was a sweatbox. On the positive side though never had any condensation issues and the house was incredibly cosy.

It was a 300 hundred house estate and after the first 80 or so houses they'd given up installing it and reverted back to vents in the double-glazing.

Since then I bought a Redrow which had an excellent options and customisation list (could add underfloor heating if you wanted), but no option for any MHVR or other solar or anything "eco". It is quite draughty for a new-build, especially compared to the Cala one. All the wetrooms just have a fan to the outside you can see daylight through.

I was told you can't customise a new build outside of the official list as otherwise they'd have to support it for 2 years of warranty.
 
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Solar PV is a very good idea, but unfortunately it only generates to an acceptable level in the spring/summer (personal experience) so it's a good idea to buy into a share of a community co-operative wind farm (Ripple energy and others) that produce their greatest power curve in the winter months. Also bear in mind wind farms do not have to sit on your roof. I have solar panels and have bought into Ripple energy's phase two offering which is being built now and will be completed/generating approx. November 2023. I installed my solar PV (3.6KWH) in 2011 and have always fancied batteries but looking at my export the pay back would be way too long, and I have also discussed with others the use of batteries for load shift (go and intelligent) but there is always the problem that these power incentives are not guaranteed into the future? To my mind solar and wind are the way to go to guarantee/maximize and future proof your investment and generate at a suitable level 24/7 365 days a year. It's also difficult to take battery/PV system with you if you move house but a co-operative windfarm share is not tied to any dwelling as its production is fed into to your local electricity supplier and therefore shows far more future flexibility. Co-operative windfarms that produce less than 100MW year are not affected/constrained by the recent government windfall excess profits tax.
 
audiable at night time even on the lowest setting

I think that is down to economising on the brand but could also be installation "config". Definitely can't hear ours, but the installers did say they did X and Y to make sure that would be the case - getting the sizing right to prevent wind whistling exiting from ceiling vents, or hurrying round pipe corners and so on. We also have a silencer on our MVHR unit - seemed excessive to me when I was approving the quote!! but I reckon it is to stop any noise from the unit transmitting to pipes, and in turn the rooms. But it is definitely noisy outside near the vents ... we fitted ours "most convenient place", which is downstairs at the front, and walking past the vents the noise is very noticeable. If I was doing it again I'll put it in the loft / have the vents up high.
the kitchen extractor just vented into the kitchen with the hope that the MHRV extractor would then pick-up the cooking smoke

Ours too (a cooker hood venting to outside is basically just another opening for draughts / cold to ingress). Our kitchen ceiling is vaulted, so a hood would probably look stupid too. We have a recirculating hood - drags the air off the hob, and returns it via the kicking-strip. The principle is that it creates an air current over the hob to ensure it gets all of the cooking smoke and smells. Then we have an MVHR vent high up in the ceiling. I was well sceptical that this would work, but in all honesty I can stay that we've never had fish or curry cooking smells anywhere else in the house. Don't think I've even opened a window when I have burnt the toast!

Downside is that our recirculating thing was Ahem! rather an expensive item. But it doesn't have disposable filters, just dismantle the thing and put all the jigsaw of stainless steel bits it in the dishwasher once a month or so.

it didn't have a summer-vent setting, so in the summer it was a sweatbox

Presumably because of high levels of insulation on our we find that temperature climb in a heatwave takes a week or so before temperatures have climbed to be "uncomfortable" - i.e. 0.5C-ish gain per day. We had the highest temperatures in the country during a fortnight heatwave a couple of years ago., the highest the South facing rooms in the house got was 25C (which I consider too hot to be sitting around in). Had we have installed AirCon that would have prevented that of course ... and negating a 0.5C rise per day is watts rather than kW

Our MVHR has "bypass", so if interior is higher than, say, 23C and outside less than, say, 20C then incoming air passes straight through, bypassing the heat exchanger, which does have some cooling effect. AirCon unit would be better still though.

Passive Haus would, usually, have roof overhangs on South side to keep the high Summer sun off the South facing glass (but let the low Winter sun in). For us the West side is worst, because the Summer sun is low by then so can't keep it off the windows. The East is a problem too, but we have deciduous Pleach that side, and bedrooms on the East would not get hot until mid morning - only teenagers impacted by that! whereas bedrooms on West would get that increasing heat during the evening. Corridor / bathrooms / smaller windows / shutters on the West if poss.

It was a 300 hundred house estate and after the first 80 or so houses they'd given up installing it and reverted back to vents in the double-glazing.

Sceptical-me assumes they had done the box-ticking-exercise by the end of the first 80 ...

As I understand it an air-pressure-test is only needed on one house on an estate, as "proof of concept". Our air pressure test found that a seal in one window had been missed. The foreman was outraged that that could have happened on his watch! I was just pleased it had been found as otherwise we would just have thought that that room "was rather cold" and lived with it ...

Solar PV is a very good idea, but unfortunately it only generates to an acceptable level in the spring/summer (personal experience) so it's a good idea to buy into a share of a community co-operative wind farm

Just arguing black-is-white maybe none of us should have roof top solar - the "stuff" for individual installs might be better if mega-size installations were done instead, adopting all possible economies-of-scale, and then we all just rely on the grid for "greenest possible power" (and a mix of Solar / Wind / Storage etc.).

I have also discussed with others the use of batteries for load shift (go and intelligent) but there is always the problem that these power incentives are not guaranteed into the future?

I'm not as pessimistic. Supply will chase demand, so I think the most likely scenario is that the cheapest time-of-use power will be daytime, when sun-shining and wind-blowing, rather than over-night dump-pricing of excess North Sea wind, to avoid the cost of curtailment fees.

I think the game changer will be EVs that will allow powering the house, or the grid. Everyone with an EV will then be in a position to not buy electricity at highest-peak price, no need to also own a static storage household battery, charge the car whenever prices are at their lowest and power house-from-car whenever prices are high. Something like that anyway, in my utopian world!
 
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...I think the game changer will be EVs that will allow powering the house, or the grid. Everyone with an EV will then be in a position to not buy electricity at highest-peak price, no need to also own a static storage household battery, charge the car whenever prices are at their lowest and power house-from-car whenever prices are high. Something like that anyway, in my utopian world!

I thought that until I owned both home battery storage & an electric car.

In my opinion I can see why Tesla keep them seperate now.

1) if you don't have a home storage battery, you can't go off-grid. A solar array would have to be Grid-tied, in case your car wasn't at home plugged in during a Grid Blackout.

2) if your car isn't at home plugged in during the day, your Solar Array is exporting to the grid, if it doesn't have home battery storage.

3) if your car is plugged into the house, and you have a power cut, there must be an automatic isolation mechanism to island everything. Then your car must be able to handle the full house demand in AC power. Which means you cannot just easily unplug and drive away...

4) with static battery home storage, the power output can be calculated and verified by the DNO. To ensure it's safe for the network cabling and your neighbourhood. However, rolling up in a mobile powerstation like a car... how would this be regulated? .... when ANY car could be plugged in? .... would it have to be so low in power, to be generically accepted?

For me... home battery storage really compliments a car battery.

a) because your home is independent to wherever your car might be. So it remains operational with Solar 24/7... even during a blackout.

b) you can charge home batteries during day, and then transfer to car when ready.

c) it's a fully operating off-grid system when needed, without requiring the car to be connected.

The one other big feature I would say is a 3 Phase Supply.

Having the capacity to run multiple high load devices simultaneously without load balancing is really good.

Charging multiple cars, home battery storage, house demand, Heat Pumps, ... all at the same time is very handy.
 
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I agree with all that @PITA, and we are really struggling to keep under 100A on our single phase supply.

I'd also comment that you don't need to comply with "Passiv Haus" Brand specs; I've always been against timber frame and prefer brick and block. Our place was built in 1989, it was all electric, and it then had mechanical ventilation and a heat recovery system installed when it was built, although we have replaced it with a more modern version. We are air-tight, and I am now very pleased we went down the all-electric route.

With the high prices of energy, it just makes good sense to have excellent insulation, and f you want no condensation, then both heat plus ventilation is needed, and a HVAC system is the best way to achieve that.
 
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I thought that until I owned both home battery storage & an electric car.

In my opinion I can see why Tesla keep them seperate now.

1) if you don't have a home storage battery, you can't go off-grid. A solar array would have to be Grid-tied, in case your car wasn't at home plugged in during a Grid Blackout.

2) if your car isn't at home plugged in during the day, your Solar Array is exporting to the grid, if it doesn't have home battery storage.

3) if your car is plugged into the house, and you have a power cut, there must be an automatic isolation mechanism to island everything. Then your car must be able to handle the full house demand in AC power. Which means you cannot just easily unplug and drive away...

4) with static battery home storage, the power output can be calculated and verified by the DNO. To ensure it's safe for the network cabling and your neighbourhood. However, rolling up in a mobile powerstation like a car... how would this be regulated? .... when ANY car could be plugged in? .... would it have to be so low in power, to be generically accepted?

For me... home battery storage really compliments a car battery.

a) because your home is independent to wherever your car might be. So it remains operational with Solar 24/7... even during a blackout.

b) you can charge home batteries during day, and then transfer to car when ready.

c) it's a fully operating off-grid system when needed, without requiring the car to be connected.

The one other big feature I would say is a 3 Phase Supply.

Having the capacity to run multiple high load devices simultaneously without load balancing is really good.

Charging multiple cars, home battery storage, house demand, Heat Pumps, ... all at the same time is very handy.
Some valid points, but also overlooking the underuse of a massive battery that in many cases is idling beside a house. We need to make more use of these resources to justify the manufacturing impact. It's not the only option, people can still have static storage if they want, but as EVs replace fossil cars we would clearly have a very large amount of storage available that would certainly help deal with variability of renewable generation.

It's a moot point however, the standard for EVs to send AC back over a Type 2 connection is somewhere close, and both EV charger manufacturers and other car manufacturers (e.g. Hyundai) are saying they will add this capability as a software update. It'll no longer be a theory next year.

Tesla need to get on board, otherwise its a large reason to choose another brand of car. I can't imagine that Tesla will leave themselves isolated.
 
Some valid points, but also overlooking the underuse of a massive battery that in many cases is idling beside a house. We need to make more use of these resources to justify the manufacturing impact. It's not the only option, people can still have static storage if they want, but as EVs replace fossil cars we would clearly have a very large amount of storage available that would certainly help deal with variability of renewable generation.

It's a moot point however, the standard for EVs to send AC back over a Type 2 connection is somewhere close, and both EV charger manufacturers and other car manufacturers (e.g. Hyundai) are saying they will add this capability as a software update. It'll no longer be a theory next year.

Tesla need to get on board, otherwise its a large reason to choose another brand of car. I can't imagine that Tesla will leave themselves isolated.
Yes, a combination of smaller static storage to mitigate most of the problems along with a robust V2G implementation would be awesome
 
If you are considering passivhaus retrofit, 2 things to do some reading on. First is the PH enerphit standard for retrofit - most of the benefits, slightly reduced tech reqs. Personally I've been using passive inspired approaches where I can.

Second to look at is Energiesprong. Not for every situation, but totally mind blowing approach to retrofit. LIDAR scan the property, build a wrap for it in a central factory, crane into place with solar, HP, MVHR and fully airtight triple glazing windows etc all pre-fitted. Retrofit complete to enerphit standards in a few days.

Idea is you can do a street in a fortnight and remove the dependency on at site quality concerns, and move production to a factory setting with more controls. Like I said, mind blown.

Also just catching up on the thread, well impressed with @NikoV6 's 455w panels! That's well impressive.

Our solar still contributing well, 5kw today which is enough to keep us using just it and the battery through to about 4pm. Just agreed an MVHR retrofit and have the sprayfoam guys booked to look at an extension underfloor area that they couldn't get to last time.
 
Some valid points, but also overlooking the underuse of a massive battery that in many cases is idling beside a house. We need to make more use of these resources to justify the manufacturing impact. It's not the only option, people can still have static storage if they want, but as EVs replace fossil cars we would clearly have a very large amount of storage available that would certainly help deal with variability of renewable generation.

It's a moot point however, the standard for EVs to send AC back over a Type 2 connection is somewhere close, and both EV charger manufacturers and other car manufacturers (e.g. Hyundai) are saying they will add this capability as a software update. It'll no longer be a theory next year.

Tesla need to get on board, otherwise its a large reason to choose another brand of car. I can't imagine that Tesla will leave themselves isolated.
I can’t see Tesla continuing to offer their 8 year / 120,000 mile battery warranty if the cars can export to home / grid. There would be far too many charge / discharge cycles without clocking any more miles.
 
I can’t see Tesla continuing to offer their 8 year / 120,000 mile battery warranty if the cars can export to home / grid. There would be far too many charge / discharge cycles without clocking any more miles.
Home batteries typically come with a 10 year warranty and are expected to cycle at least daily, so I wouldn't expect warrent periods to be an issue. I do accept the point though that we expect cars to last more than 10 years. and this might be an issue. V2G people do say that slowly charging and discharging is net positive for battery life compared to the far sharper discharge from driving.
 
I've always been against timber frame and prefer brick and block.

Passive Haus doesn't have to be timber - ours is brick and block, mock Georgian. I think it just needs enough insulation to get to the approrpaite U-value, and really good air tightness.
I can’t see Tesla continuing to offer their 8 year / 120,000 mile battery warranty if the cars can export to home / grid

I think one option would be that Export to House counts as some sort of "Miles" (against battery warranty). You would be using the battery, whether driving or powering the house, so the two could be aggregated. Future buyer would like to know about that "wear and tear", let alone the Warranty
 
I think one option would be that Export to House counts as some sort of "Miles" (against battery warranty). You would be using the battery, whether driving or powering the house, so the two could be aggregated. Future buyer would like to know about that "wear and tear", let alone the Warranty
How about keeping it simple and go the route of first gen nissan leaf where degradation was shown?...
 
My mid to long term plan is to get solar panels at home so have been keeping an eye on this thread, some really great info.

At my work they have just finished phase 1 solar project that I have been keeping a keen eye on and the owner has posted some YouTube vids of progress and payback (after 1 month of operations). Not sure how useful the below two YouTube vids are in answering the title of this thread (Solar panel is it worth it in the UK?), as its more on a commercial level at the very least there some great drone footage of solar panels if that floats your boat :cool:

Solar panel drone

After one full month payback calculations
 
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Got an unexpected phone call yesterday.

Order placed in August 22 for solar and Powerwall, all very quiet after initial flurry of activity getting survey done etc. Early October a call to tell me that the DNO refused the G99 as proposed and wanted some limits imposed, which was still going to be ok with me. So G99 fast track sorted necessary permissions out.

I had been told to expect an installation date 4 months after DNO acceptance which would take us to lated Feb/early March 23.

However yesterdays call was to say they want to instal week commencing 16 January, weather permitting. Includes Powerwall and gateway as opposed to solar but now and batteries when they can get them, which seems to be a common solution people get imposed upon them in a Facebook group I’m in.

super excited again, having collected the Y earlier this week I’m not sure I can stand this much excitement in such a compressed timeframe 🤣