Solar Panels

[bjrosen]

This isn't Tesla specific so I apologize but I figure there will be a lot of overlap with this community. I'm thinking of putting solar panels on my house. I just had Sun Run solar over to take a look, instead of buying solar panels they put them up and become a power company that charges me per KWh. Does anyone have any experience with them, any other recommendations? I'm 67 so I figure that I won't be able to get my money back by buying a solar roof and I doubt that it would add enough value to the house that I would recover the costs when the time comes to sell. A no upfront cost deal like this will save less money in the long run but at my age I'm only interested in the short run.

 

[robarino]

I am a current sunrun customer. Have been for a while. I am also doing their Power Purchase agreement. This is a MUCH larger conversation, but I would scrutinize the deal. I find dealing with their Admin behind the scenes is a little disjointed. What is the per kWh rate they are quoting? I have had zero problems with their array and am 10 years in. Been pretty rock solid. I wish I would have bargained with them a bit back in the day. The no cost install appealed to me, but you still get a bill even when the panels are covered in snow. I would love to know what they are quoting you, what type of panels, etc etc. If you want to go PM route to discuss specifics please do.

 

[bjrosen]

I haven't received a formal quote yet but verbally it was 19.5 cents/KWh. I'm paying about 25 cents to the electric company at the moment. I just talked to a realtor in my town to see what solar does to the value of a house, she say's it detracts. With a PPA people don't want to assume the financial liability and if I bought solar outright people still don't like it. I'm in a special situation, my house is 200 years old so solar panels would be very out of place on it.

 

[tga]

I would also get a quote and payback analysis for a customer owned system. Back when I lived in MA, Revision Energy installed a system for me that had a (conservative) payback of 5-6 years (but I was on SREC-I, which had ridiculous payouts). Figure out the imputed financing rate of any PPA, and you will often discover they are not a very good deal, since the solar company is making an ongoing profit throughout the PPA (it's often better to purchase the system upfront with cash or financing than to do a PPA).

I wouldn't rely on increased values when you sell yout house. Even though the DOE's Berkeley Lab study says otherwise, it didn't seem to help me when I sold the house (but that's only a single data point).

I've had limited experiences with Sun Run at the state regulatory level. Lets just say it wasn't a positive experience, and I don't have any interest in doing business with them as a result.

 

[robarino]

I haven't received a formal quote yet but verbally it was 19.5 cents/KWh. I'm paying about 25 cents to the electric company at the moment. I just talked to a realtor in my town to see what solar does to the value of a house, she say's it detracts. With a PPA people don't want to assume the financial liability and if I bought solar outright people still don't like it. I'm in a special situation, my house is 200 years old so solar panels would be very out of place on it.

So I am in MA as well. 19.5 seems insanely high. I am paying them .14 I believe. You can do better. You actually might be better off doing a low interest loan and buying. Same initial outlay, and the monthly might be the same. Shop around.
.05 with an average use of 1000KWH a month, is only $50 savings. You really want them poking holes in your roof for $600 a year savings?

 

[bjrosen]

So I am in MA as well. 19.5 seems insanely high. I am paying them .14 I believe. You can do better. You actually might be better off doing a low interest loan and buying. Same initial outlay, and the monthly might be the same. Shop around.
.05 with an average use of 1000KWH a month, is only $50 savings. You really want them poking holes in your roof for $600 a year savings?

My usage is 1600KWh a month, higher in the summer when the air conditioner is on. Thanks for the data point. I'm leaning away from doing it. Buying a system doesn't make sense at my age, if I was 20 years younger I'd do it but not now. If I were to buy I'd do it for cash, I never borrow money. The issue is that it will take at least 10 years to make your money back, maybe more, and since it might actually decrease the value of the house I can't get it back that way.

 

[ArcticStation]

I looked into a similar offering here in Maine (Community Solar Farms in Maine | ReVision Energy). Note the many advantages outlined in the link. Also note that it is an asset that can be sold in the future--something you will have to do if you move out of your service area in the future. Time will tell if turns out to be an asset like a car that depreciates over time or will it appreciate AND pay a monthly dividend (your former electric bill) while you hold it? We simply don't know at this point. As noted in earlier posts, take a hard look at your potential ROA.

We decided against it for two reasons. I'm in my early 70s, my spouse is in her late 60s and our kids, who live out of state, are asking us to consider moving nearby. I really don't want to deal with selling a $30K investment in a solar farm if we do move. Plus, our tax burden is currently very low so we wouldn't be able to take advantage of the generous tax credit available. However, it sounds like a very attractive option for people who are planning to stay in their service area for a while and who have a tax burden large enough to take advantage of the credit.

 

[srs5694]

When I looked into solar panels, about three years ago, the general advice was to not go for one of the leased systems, for a couple of reasons. One is that, in the long run, you're almost certain to get a better payoff by owning the panels and collecting whatever benefits they provide directly. The second is that a set of leased solar panels can actually be an impediment to selling your house; the buyer will be saddled with whatever terms you negotiated, which the buyer might not like. The end result is that there will be little or no increase in your property value and it may take longer to sell the house. Of course, if you expect to not be in the house for very long, the first point may not be a big deal, and being able to save a little on your electric bills could be enticing; but in that case, the savings you'll see will be pretty minor, too.

I recommend that anybody considering solar panels in the US check out a site called Energy Sage. You enter your address in this site and they'll contact several solar installers in your area for quotes. The initial quotes will be very tentative, since they're based on satellite images of your property; but they'll give you some idea of what you might expect in the way of costs and payback periods. If you proceed, you can then contact as many of the installers as you like to get more accurate quotes based on in-person inspections of your property. It's been a while, but as I recall, some or all of the installers who responded to me offered a variety of financing options, including both outright purchase and leasing/PPA options; so even if you decide to go with the latter, contacting local installers for estimates may be worthwhile, in addition to contacting big national companies. The Energy Sage site also has a lot of documentation on solar technology, financing options, net metering, renewable energy credits (RECs), etc.

FWIW, I've now had solar panels on my house for about three years. When I had them installed, the estimated payback period was about 8 years. It's been a while since I've done a detailed analysis, but after the first year, I crunched the numbers, and 8 years seemed about right for the payback. Overall, I'm quite happy with what I've got.

 

[EdA]

I bought the panels on my old house (2011) and my new house (moved last year, installed this year).
If you can swing paying for it (without a long or lease) in MA my calculations (and from my prior home)
show that you are cash positive between year 5 and year 6. When I sold my house last year I provided
a spreadsheet showing what I was paying for electricity before and after solar and I think it only helped the
sale. If you're leasing or in a PPA then it is tough to convert to the new owner if/when you go to sell.

 

[EdA]

BTW: I put my deposit on my original Model S in October of 2010 with an estimated delivery of the car in late 2012 (it came in early January 2013). In early 2011 I started looking into solar and asked somewhere on the TMC and got some great input.

 

[jlv1]

We bought our panels in 2015 and they paid for themselves in 5.5 years. But the SREC problem no longer exists in MA; selling the renewable energy credits nets me about $2800/yr, which is what helped pay them off. The replacement program in MA, SMART, isn't as lucrative as I hear (but I don't know the details). Anyway, if you have panels you *bought* on your house, they can be lucrative for when you sell your house.

I tell everyone who asks me to now lease the panels. There are all sorts of downsides, like the cost of electricity they sell you and annoyances if you move before the lease is up. They are leasing the panels to you because it earns them money; if you buy the panels, you are the one getting the savings.

MA also has (had?) state low-cost solar loans to help people afford panels. I would suggest looking for those before looking at leasing.

There's also the Federal solar tax credit (26% for this installs through the end of 2022), which is good if you have enough income to make use of the credit.

I also tell people to deal with a local solar installer rather than any national company. They'll help you with learning about SMART and the availability of loans. I bought from Brightstar Solar in Marlborough, MA. The owners are great and helpful to talk to . For me (and everyone I've referred to them), the owner Jon came out to my house to do the initial site inspection and system sizing.

 

[jlv1]

I'm in a special situation, my house is 200 years old so solar panels would be very out of place on it.

Do you have enough land that a ground-mounted installation is possible?

 

[nicedrum]

Aside from insulating and replacing old lightbulbs with LED's (and going vegetarian a few days a week, not flying, etc), installing solar panels is one of the best places to put your money to reduce your carbon footprint. I'd recommend it at any age.

Having incentives like SREC make panels a better return than stocks (on average, maybe not Tesla stock over the past 9 years, but probably going forward..). Even without SREC or the like, the return on investment is probably as good or better than many investments. They seem like a no brainer if the roof doesn't need replacing soon.

Another benefit I've found is that in the summer they keep my south-facing roof much cooler, and thus my building stays cooler on the inside and reduces the need to ventilate, run fans or AC. I think it should extend the life of the underlying roof shingles as well.

I used New England Clean Energy, who were great (and small / locally owned / etc).

 

[JWardell]

I've been trying to install solar for OVER two years now, and have extensive experience with several companies (sadly, none positive).

Try for Tesla first. Their quotes were consistently MUCH less expensive than anyone else, in some cases HALF the price.
Sadly Tesla solar is totally incompetant, I went through SIX different designs, and four different teams, over the course of a year. They could NOT handle simple common issues with old houses (or average age for this area). Massive strong roof beams meant nothing because they are unequally spaced and thier "design team" in the middle of who knows where could never figure it out, despite several in-person structural tests and approvals. Panel upgrades with 208V service...brains exploding. After so many compromises we got all the way to the day before install, and they pulled out. I tried again with solar roof, was told again they confidently could do it, and once I got to design, was dropped again.
...anyway, try Tesla first, they are MUCH cheaper, and all their signing and agreements and loans are a hundred times more streamlined than others, but be prepared for them to drop the ball. Fight, but don't hold your breath.

I did get a quote from NECE which was shockingly high. They didn't return my calls either, so I skipped them. Maybe I still would have been better off.

After NUMEROUS personal recommendations I went with SunBug Solar. On July 1 2019 I contacted them and simply asked very clearly, can you install solar on my perfectly south-facing roof by December? (I had been SCREWED by taxes because I was planning on a solar rebate which fell through because of Tesla). OF COURSE!

I'll leave a few novels of frustration here, but installation didn't occur till...June 30, 2020. Yep. And it's STILL not activated! They promised install would only take one day...it took six days, plus several more waiting home for national grid to never show up. National Grid has also been a nightmare.

The incentives(and expensive electricity) in Massachusetts make it more valuable than any other state, but you are playing roulette with a simple experience or a difficult one.

 

[tga]

Back when I lived in MA, Revision Energy installed a system for me that had a (conservative) payback of 5-6 years (but I was on SREC-I, which had ridiculous payouts).

FWIW, this system was actually installed by New England Clean Energy. Revision did the system at a later house. I'm very happy with the work done by both companies.

 

[cfbackrow]

I had sunpower installed on my roof in mid june of this year....started the process and signed the paperwork Dec of last year...besides the wait everything went smoothly...except the local inspector...he made me wait 3 weeks after it was done to inspect it (which took 2 minutes) that was frustrating. I highly recommend it