Yes, have heard of bollards in some counties being required and also the 3-ft spacing near gas meter. Believe that last one is a PG&E safety requirement. OP you said you are in San Jose. From a post or two I've seen I believe San Jose also has some fire department requirements now about heat triggered alarm systems being mandatory. Some jurisdictions are looking for them to be hardwired into your home system to get approval. Something that is influx with changes to fire code. But yes, you have to deal with a number of entities all with their own requirements and I honestly can't picture bollards in people's garages.
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Solar+Powerwall Canceled on Day of Install on Due to Complications
- Thread starter evalltheway
- Start date
Santa Clara County and our local fire jurisdiction didn't have any requirements at the time of our permitting for bollards or sure we'd have been informed of it. Passed our inspection and got PTO. We have 3 PWs, two stacked and they are floor mounted in the garage at the entrance just past the garage door. I know there are supposedly changes in the wings waiting to happen so was glad to get our install completed and be grandfathered in on them.
Our water heater btw is just further inside the garage on the same side wall but code required it to be installed on a raised platform (placed in an alcove in that garage wall) so it's maybe two feet off the ground and to the side and just can't see why bollards would be needed there.
All I can say is contractors and installers must go crazy over all of these cities/counties/fire jurisdictions all requiring different things.
We just completed our install - see My Solar Roof Journey. Initially Tesla was planning to put the PWs outside next to my electricity panel. On PW install day I was told by the electrician about the Powerwall needing to be 3 feet away from the gas line. I wanted the PWs installed in the garage anyway, so it didn't matter, but wanted to share that this seems to be a legit rule/code and not just PGE (we are SDGE here). When discussing the location inside the garage, we talked about the wall where the cars point at / drive towards. He said if I choose that wall, indeed a barrier / bollard would be needed per code. We did a side and back wall install anyway - see pictures - and no issues. Inspection passed without any problems.
Agree w- above...bollard very likely necessary on floor of wall opposite garage door. Side walls parallel to car entrance less likely to need bollard. (recently permitted 3 stacked PWs floor mounted on side wall without bollard).
Best reassurance would be to talk to your local jurisdiction building inspector (as opposed to just relying on tesla reps / installers)
Happy holidays!
Best reassurance would be to talk to your local jurisdiction building inspector (as opposed to just relying on tesla reps / installers)
Happy holidays!
OP I think the second guy who came out was giving you an honest answer about things. Also that right now, end of year, Tesla would find your install to be more complicated and time consuming to do before the end of the year. Did they say they wouldn't do it or that they couldn't do it now?
I would be super disappointed given your circumstances with the first guy coming out. Don't know what to say other than the first guy was just likely checking out the roof and where your possible PW placement would be and not involved in code issues from various governing bodies. I doubt they can pay to have their lead electicians come out to jobs just to look over things, but given people submit pictures or the site inspection guys do, you would think they would get reviewed and questions asked ahead of time for clarification. Sorry you had this happen to you. I know how excited we were to have ours done. Our job turned out to be more complicated than they anticipated because I wanted our inverter and gateway 2 installed with our PWs on the opposite side of our side double car garage walls. We also had equipment on the wall across from it where the load centers were going in, that despite photos given to them of the broader area, the lead electrician didn't anticipate the amount of work. I think he thought the electrical and PWs were going to be a one day install which would be typical for most homes but it ended up being more like 3. This was end of August however. Had they said they couldn't install when they were out I would have been crushed especially having put down our deposit and signed our contract in the January/February timeframe.
BTW people here have also gotten tripped up by roofing and other issues. Latest issue I saw on the forum was that people can be turned down because they have too much solar already in place or approved for in their area. Has to do with the utilities equipment being able to only handle so much back feed I think was the reasoning without old equipment being replaced or new substations built out.
Having solar and PWs now I have to say I do love knowing we are using it and would still suggest seeing what options you have for getting a system installed next year. Chance are Tesla would give you some credit or rebate for the ITC difference given you were set for install today and they couldn't do it when they came out.
I would be super disappointed given your circumstances with the first guy coming out. Don't know what to say other than the first guy was just likely checking out the roof and where your possible PW placement would be and not involved in code issues from various governing bodies. I doubt they can pay to have their lead electicians come out to jobs just to look over things, but given people submit pictures or the site inspection guys do, you would think they would get reviewed and questions asked ahead of time for clarification. Sorry you had this happen to you. I know how excited we were to have ours done. Our job turned out to be more complicated than they anticipated because I wanted our inverter and gateway 2 installed with our PWs on the opposite side of our side double car garage walls. We also had equipment on the wall across from it where the load centers were going in, that despite photos given to them of the broader area, the lead electrician didn't anticipate the amount of work. I think he thought the electrical and PWs were going to be a one day install which would be typical for most homes but it ended up being more like 3. This was end of August however. Had they said they couldn't install when they were out I would have been crushed especially having put down our deposit and signed our contract in the January/February timeframe.
BTW people here have also gotten tripped up by roofing and other issues. Latest issue I saw on the forum was that people can be turned down because they have too much solar already in place or approved for in their area. Has to do with the utilities equipment being able to only handle so much back feed I think was the reasoning without old equipment being replaced or new substations built out.
Having solar and PWs now I have to say I do love knowing we are using it and would still suggest seeing what options you have for getting a system installed next year. Chance are Tesla would give you some credit or rebate for the ITC difference given you were set for install today and they couldn't do it when they came out.
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Ah the fun with EoY push and bollards!
Yes this is definetely a thing, and the requirements are all over the place.
1. Its been code for a while 2019 CRC R327.6
Stationary storage battery systems installed in a location subject to vehicle damage shall be protected by approved barriers.
Basically there's no code to currently base this off except the IMC commentary section, which offers the following diagram:
The problem is that California didnt officially adopt the IMC, but this is as close as the current codes get to defining what a bollard looks like.
When you get into County of Santa Clara jurisdiction, they are even more strict. They do not allow any of the above methods.
Instead they want Bollards per the CFC 312.2
Posts used to provide vehicle impact protection shall comply with the following requirements:
1. Constructed of steel not less than 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter and concrete filled.
2. Spaced not more than 4 feet (1219 mm) between posts on center.
3. Set not less than 3 feet (914 mm) deep in a concrete footing of not less than a 15-inch (381-mm) diameter.
4. Set with the top of the posts not less than 3 feet (914 mm) above grade.
5. Located not less than 3 feet (914 mm) from the protected object.
Yes this is definetely a thing, and the requirements are all over the place.
1. Its been code for a while 2019 CRC R327.6
Stationary storage battery systems installed in a location subject to vehicle damage shall be protected by approved barriers.
Basically there's no code to currently base this off except the IMC commentary section, which offers the following diagram:
The problem is that California didnt officially adopt the IMC, but this is as close as the current codes get to defining what a bollard looks like.
When you get into County of Santa Clara jurisdiction, they are even more strict. They do not allow any of the above methods.
Instead they want Bollards per the CFC 312.2
Posts used to provide vehicle impact protection shall comply with the following requirements:
1. Constructed of steel not less than 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter and concrete filled.
2. Spaced not more than 4 feet (1219 mm) between posts on center.
3. Set not less than 3 feet (914 mm) deep in a concrete footing of not less than a 15-inch (381-mm) diameter.
4. Set with the top of the posts not less than 3 feet (914 mm) above grade.
5. Located not less than 3 feet (914 mm) from the protected object.
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Thanks. So bollard is required in San Jose even if my powerwall will be on the side wall of the garage right by garage door entrance making it almost impossible to hit the powerwall? And the 3 feet from gas riser to install their equipment (not PW) is required even if my master panel has no upgrades?
On a side wall, with a return wall at the garage opening I think is very safe location.
Are you in County of Santa Clara jurisdiction or San Jose?
Correct, no new equipment within 36" of the gas riser.
@Vines has talked about inside garage codes, bollards etc. Op since you are new here, @Vines is a regular member here, but is in the solar industry (and I believe is a system designer), not for tesla but for another solar company. So, he has a lot of understanding of the codes etc. We also have another member @wwhitney who also is either in the solar industry, a practicing electrician, or both.
Bay area counties are enforcing some of these codes strictly, is the very high level version of it but I dont remember 1 powerwall being a huge issue.
So, this is likely not your installer not wanting to do the job, thats unlikely (they just would be moving onto the next one, no reason to single you out if you stop and think about it).
Different nor cal counties seem to have some different requirements, so you are kind of stuck there.
edit:... @Vines beat me to it, lol.
He said they could do it but not today given it is a complicated job, needed more than 1 day (not something they are prioritizing given EOY push) and required more planning on how to execute. As you are pointing out, I sent them multiple pictures and had the guy come in earlier for site inspection. I just can't understand how two such obvious things that they claim are needed were not pointed out earlier. They knew PW was going to be inside garage and said that was totally fine and that placement of their equipment was going to be near panel which they confirmed to me needed no upgrade and was perfect for solar.
Follow up question - CFC312.2. shows clearly what is needed but I couldn't find when it is needed. Is that assumption (and thus confusion) that it is needed anytime PW is put inside garage irrespective where?
Got it - so the installer today was right about the gas riser rule. I live in San Jose jurisdiction.
If you are truly in San Jose jurisdiction, there is currently no impact protection required if its installed where you describe, in my experience. If you are in Santa Clara County Jurisdiction, its currently required anywhere in the garage.
That's pretty frustrating to just walk away and reschedule because of difficulty, make a commitment and stick to it! The issue is they are going so fast and have such low prices they cant afford much oversight until the day of installation. inexperienced designers make mistakes and Tesla deals with it how they do.
Have you ever talked with one of these jurisdictions about how they would view Powerwalls installed 4' above the garage slab? I think that would get them above the hood of most vehicles.
There's a question of whether there's a requirement that the switch on the Powerwall be at most 6'7" above the slab. But I'm not sure what NEC section would require that. 404.8(A) generically requires switches to be at most 6'7" high, but includes an exception for switches next to "motor, appliances or other equipment they supply" which I would say applies here. I'm not so familiar with the disconnect requirements in 705 and the like, but surely any of those could be satisfied by an additional disconnect at the proper height, which would be cheaper than bollards.
Cheers, Wayne
P.S. I'm neither in the solar industry or a practicing electrician, I'm just a full time owner-builder and student of the various building codes, particularly the NEC.
I have totally offered such a reasonable thing to the AHJ, and most of them except County of SC have accepted that, and I totally agree about the switch exception. Mostly the Powerwalls have a subpanel nearby, and some additional means of disconnect is required if the bottom is above 40"
I am currently part of an industry group seeking to define the locations in a garage where an ESS is subject to damage. We have some good progress and may get a proposal together in time for the 2021 IFC.
Yep, not claiming at all that I was being singled out. More that they just don't want to take complicated jobs right now (EOY push) so their attitude clearly showed me they were not interested in my installation today. I don't blame them - the designer should have picked this up but either way I'm at the receiving end here.
Thanks
.. Thank you to all of you for sharing your insights here! Will definitely keep you posted on my "fun" journey here. I double checked my tax rate and I do live in San Jose jurisdiction. The bollard is something I'll need to personally or via Tesla confirm from the city before we even consider another installation date. Yep, the most frustrating part was them walking away from the job. Oh well... at least I got to catch a nap in the daytime today because I was in mood to do anything productive.
Very reasonable, but conservative, though I would offer that with some size return wall of the garage, there isn't any danger in some garages for a floor mounted installation.
