Solar Roof, big price increase

[holeydonut]

I’m 9 days out to the start of my new Tesla solar v3 roof. Its been well over a year since the since we got in contract for the 76k 14.3kw 3 battery system. My wife and I have been saving and could be more excited for our shinny new power plant. But that obviously all changed today. The project start date is now been push back a week after and has a 98k price tag! We already rented a house for the contracted week of construction for our family. I honestly don’t even know where to start how disappointed I truly am. My wife and I are meeting with our attorney tomorrow, but I doubt any legal cost out going to offset my damages. This just sucks.

I know the lawyer you're speaking with is representing you and not others on TMC... but it would help a ton of people here to know how attorney believes California contract law allows for damages in this scenario. (I don't care what adjective gets thrown in front of damages)

I think a lot of people would be willing to jump on board with similar claims for damages calculated in that manner if an attorney believe damages could equal the difference between the new, higher price less the original contract price.

 

[Jaydubb747]

I know the lawyer you're speaking with is representing you and not others on TMC... but it would help a ton of people here to know how attorney believes California contract law allows for damages in this scenario. (I don't care what adjective gets thrown in front of damages)

I think a lot of people would be willing to jump on board with similar claims for damages calculated in that manner if an attorney believe damages could equal the difference between the new, higher price less the original contract price.

We’re meeting in morning will definitely update everyone tomorrow.

 

[Tdreamer]

Just got the e-mail indicating a price increase is inbound. We ordered in 10/2019 and have been working towards the install for over a year and with the installation date set for June, excitement has been building. This SUCKS.

My order does not YET show any increase in price, although since seeing the Electrek article linking to this thread, I've been monitoring closely. Today I did see the cost of new gutters added back in to the quote (and then removed again), and the amount of the SMART Solar Incentive go way up before dropping back down again. Current order matches the contract I signed in March 2020. For me, pre-install work is done - had a second onsite visit by Tesla Energy two weeks ago to collect additional measurements (mostly skylight sizing) they didn't get last year due to changes in what they gather up front (so they said when they were here).

View attachment 653228

In terms of complexity, I guess I'd call it a moderate by the new rules.
14.5 kW + 3 PW

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Got the bad news officially this evening with a new "offer". My 78k install went to 95k. The odd thing is with the revised theoretical the savings, the cost only jumped about $5k.

 

[patrick40363]

I am not a lawyer but I guess you would need to go to superior court due to the contract amount. You would probably sue for specific performance?

 

[eipi10]

I’m 9 days out to the start of my new Tesla solar v3 roof. Its been well over a year since the since we got in contract for the 76k 14.3kw 3 battery system. My wife and I have been saving and could be more excited for our shinny new power plant. But that obviously all changed today. The project start date is now been push back a week after and has a 98k price tag! We already rented a house for the contracted week of construction for our family. I honestly don’t even know where to start how disappointed I truly am. My wife and I are meeting with our attorney tomorrow, but I doubt any legal cost out going to offset my damages. This just sucks.

What you need to do is meet with a class action attorney, who may take the case on a contingency fee arrangement.

 

[holeydonut]

I am not a lawyer but I guess you would need to go to superior court due to the contract amount. You would probably sue for specific performance?

Specific performance is usually something required with transfer of land / real property. It's almost never applied for goods and services because such a ruling is akin to forcing someone to perform a service against their wishes. Compelling specific behavior is pretty tough to do; requiring a settlement of funds is finite and well understood. So most service / goods disputes involve recovering monetary damages; and calculating damages becomes the most important element. It's not about "right or wrong" it's about what $ amount would offset damages.

That's why I'm interested to learn if an attorney out there feels they can build a case whereby damages are so high that it would be in Tesla's best interest to

1) honor the previous commitments/pricing
2) pay the homeowner the cost differential between the original quoted price for a solar shingle roof installed at today's prices (could be done by Tesla or potentially another party)

Of course, bad press has a lot of implied value too; hopefully the pressure alone to "do right" is worth it to restore customers back to their original quoted costs and get them back to the priority queue instead of waiting 40 years.

 

[eipi10]

Specific performance is usually something required with transfer of land / real property. It's almost never applied for goods and services because such a ruling is akin to forcing someone to perform a service against their wishes. So most service / goods disputes involve recovering damages.

That's why I'm interested to learn if an attorney out there feels they can build a case whereby damages are so high that it would be in Tesla's best interest to

1) honor the previous commitments/pricing
2) pay the homeowner the cost differential between the original quoted price for a solar shingle roof installed at today's prices (could be done by Tesla or potentially another party)

Of course, bad press has a lot of implied value too; hopefully the pressure alone to "do right" is worth it to restore customers back to their original quoted costs and get them back to the priority queue instead of waiting 40 years.

Without providing legal advice: This is a case where Tesla is OFFERING to perform the service. They're backing out of the agreed-upon price and offering a new price. I don't think we need experts in contract law here to analyze this situation and see where it's going.

Anyway, my advice (as mentioned above) is to contact a class action attorney. They take on far more dubious cases than this one.

 

[bayareaever]

Without providing legal analysis: This is a case where Tesla is OFFERING to perform the service. They're just backing out of the agreed-upon price and offering a new price. I don't think we need experts in contract law here to analyze this situation and see where it's going.

You mean it’s basically not going anywhere?

 

[h2ofun]

You mean it’s basically not going anywhere?

Yep, tesla has deep pockets.

 

[eipi10]

You mean it’s basically not going anywhere?

We shall see.... I expect one or more class action lawsuits. It's a no-brainer.

 

[bayareaever]

Yep, tesla has deep pockets.

Agreed. But then they should take a loss this time and fulfill the contracts.

The thing is, the potential loss could be really huge for all we know. Clearly they’ve calculated it already and decided it’s untenable.

 

[bayareaever]

We shall see.... I expect one or more class action lawsuits. It's a no-brainer.

That would presumably amount to some measly check in the mail three years from now for all participants. Not saying it isn’t worth pursuing though.

 

[wjgjr]

Without providing legal advice: This is a case where Tesla is OFFERING to perform the service. They're backing out of the agreed-upon price and offering a new price. I don't think we need experts in contract law here to analyze this situation and see where it's going.

Anyway, my advice (as mentioned above) is to contact a class action attorney. They take on far more dubious cases than this one.

While I agree with what you are saying, I think the point is that the likely remedy will be monetary damages and not specific performance. Specific performance is usually only awarded where unique items are involved (thus the example of real estate since each property is unique.) While solar roof is a pretty unique product, it is likely not something that would be seen as unique in the sense that it requires specific performance. (It would be interesting, however, if they awarded damages equal to what it would cost for a third-party Tesla installer to complete the work, since Tesla does now have those, at least in some areas.)

 

[MP3Mike]

That's why I'm interested to learn if an attorney out there feels they can build a case whereby damages are so high that it would be in Tesla's best interest to

1) honor the previous commitments/pricing
2) pay the homeowner the cost differential between the original quoted price for a solar shingle roof installed at today's prices (could be done by Tesla or potentially another party)

Of course, bad press has a lot of implied value too; hopefully the pressure alone to "do right" is worth it to restore customers back to their original quoted costs and get them back to the priority queue instead of waiting 40 years.

I'm assuming, yeah I know probably a bad idea, that they have already had their legal department review the contracts and feel that they are within their rights to cancel them. If you think a law suit will pressure Tesla to do something they don't want to do you should probably think again. Elon has publicly stated that he hates "nuisance" suits and that they won't settle to make them go away. (Since that just encourages more of them.) The one time he did settle he ended up regretting it and said that if he had it to do over again he wouldn't settle. Then you can look at other examples like the suit from Mr. Unsworth where he spent way more in legal fees to win than what they asked for to settle. And there is the class action suit on the BMS changes for the 85kWh packs that has been going for 1.5+ years and appears to have made no visible progress. And taking it to the extreme, the insurance company that Tesla had to insure the board settled on an issue while Elon refused to. The result is Elon fired the insurance company and is now personally insuring the board so that he doesn't ever have to settle.

Having said all of that if you have a contract that they signed and it doesn't contain a clause that covers their cancelling it they should absolutely honor the contract.

 

[eipi10]

While I agree with what you are saying, I think the point is that the likely remedy will be monetary damages and not specific performance. Specific performance is usually only awarded where unique items are involved (thus the example of real estate since each property is unique.) While solar roof is a pretty unique product, it is likely not something that would be seen as unique in the sense that it requires specific performance. (It would be interesting, however, if they awarded damages equal to what it would cost for a third-party Tesla installer to complete the work, since Tesla does now have those, at least in some areas.)

Without providing legal advice -- I think the possible remedies here are: (1) Tesla performs at agreed-upon price (specific performance); or (2) (assuming there is a viable substitute installer) Tesla pays difference between price of substitute installer and agreed-upon price (damages).

 

[eipi10]

I'm assuming, yeah I know probably a bad idea, that they have already had their legal department review the contracts and feel that they are within their rights to cancel them. If you think a law suit will pressure Tesla to do something they don't want to do you should probably think again. Elon has publicly stated that he hates "nuisance" suits and that they won't settle to make them go away. (Since that just encourages more of them.) The one time he did settle he ended up regretting it and said that if he had it to do over again he wouldn't settle. Then you can look at other examples like the suit from Mr. Unsworth where he spent way more in legal fees to win than what they asked for to settle. And there is the class action suit on the BMS changes for the 85kWh packs that has been going for 1.5+ years and appears to have made no visible progress. And taking it to the extreme, the insurance company that Tesla had to insure the board settled on an issue while Elon refused to. The result is Elon fired the insurance company and is now personally insuring the board so that he doesn't ever have to settle.

Having said all of that if you have a contract that they signed and it doesn't contain a clause that covers their cancelling it they should absolutely honor the contract.

I don't think demanding that Tesla honor an agreed-upon price for a service would be a "nuisance suit." I think a person who tries to raise the price of a service after agreeing on a price for it is a "scumbag."

 

[Cryptoengineer]

I haven't gotten the letter yet, though I expect one.

The infuriating thing is that this is all Tesla's fault: they accepted deposits and signed contracts knowing full well they couldn't deliver for months. They should not have contracted to do a job at a price they could not commit to.

Tesla is a lot more exposed in this way on the Cybertruck. Its materials have also gone up, and building 500-750k trucks costs a lot. There at least, there's just a deposit, not a legal contract. If Tesla regards jacking up the roof price, we may see the same on the CT.

 

[bayareaever]

Same here.

The car orders also have legal contracts which clearly don’t mean much of anything either (assuming they get away with it this time).

 

[Southpasfan]

Ugh. I hope this is addressed, and soon. A couple of points (I’m a lawyer).

I’m not sure it’s a “class action”. It would technically qualify as Tesla does business accross the country but each contract is unique.

What it would be is that one lawyer, in, say California, could represent any shred from one to hundreds of clients. He or she would have no conflict.

Damages

 

[Southpasfan]

Ugh. I hope this is addressed, and soon. A couple of points (I’m a lawyer).

I’m not sure it’s a “class action”. It would technically qualify as Tesla does business accross the country but each contract is unique.

What it would be is that one lawyer, in, say California, could represent any shred from one to hundreds of clients. He or she would have no conflict.

Damages

I was about to type that damages are different for each contract. Tesla! Please fix this and just honor existing contracts!!!