Solar Roof, big price increase

[Silicon Desert]

Would your company cover these loses? I assume your companies costs have gone up and you have to pass them along? So easy to think a large company has deep pockets as does not have to worry about profits.

I see you are responding to someone else , though your comment reminded me of my installation (traditional modules on the roof) from a local company 5 years ago. After I signed the contract and they started the installation, for whatever reason they could no longer get the modules that I ordered. They had to get more expensive ones (about 45 watts more per unit) to put on my roof. The solar company absorbed the cost increase ! Nice to know there are some companies around that will do such a thing and didn't pass it along to me.

 

[sportser002]

Business insider has picked up the story. See below. Hopefully other media outlets will pick this up as well and Tesla will reverse course on this awful treatment of customers.
Tesla is hiking the prices on its solar roof tiles for existing customers by as much as 70%.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Other people here may already know this, but I did not know until this morning when I was talking to the owner of a fairly large solar installer company. They have been independent for years, but recently Tesla has been training them to install roof panels. So obviously, Tesla is using some existing independent companies to help meet the demand. Again, maybe you folks already knew that. Perhaps some of the price increase is due to the fact they have to share some profit with these other companies.

The main point of my post is this company was not aware of a big price increase issue as Tesla hadn't told them. When they caught wind of the price increase yesterday and all of the unhappy people out there, they are pulling out of being a Tesla installer as they don't want to risk potential reputation problems of their main business and have to deal with angry customers during installation. Now I wonder how many other independents might pull out and make the problem even worse for getting installations done.

For me, I don't have a horse in this race. I just read the popular threads and really interested in solar installation since one of my clients was a large inverter company. Wishing the best for you affected folks to get all this resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[jboy210]

Other people here may already know this, but I did not know until this morning when I was talking to the owner of a fairly large solar installer company. They have been independent for years, but recently Tesla has been training them to install roof panels. So obviously, Tesla is using some existing independent companies to help meet the demand. Again, maybe you folks already knew that. Perhaps some of the price increase is due to the fact they have to share some profit with these other companies.

The main point of my post is this company was not aware of a big price increase issue as Tesla hadn't told them. When they caught wind of the price increase yesterday and all of the unhappy people out there, they are pulling out of being a Tesla installer as they don't want to risk potential reputation problems of their main business and have to deal with angry customers during installation. Now I wonder how many other independents might pull out and make the problem even worse for getting installations done.

For me, I don't have a horse in this race. I just read the popular threads and really interested in solar installation since one of my clients was a large inverter company. Wishing the best for you affected folks to get all this resolved to your satisfaction.

G,

They have been working with 3rd party installers to sell and install the SolarRoof for over a year. Our SolarRoof was sold by Tesla, and installed by a mixed Tesla and local installer crew.

However, you may be on to something. During the install, the owner of the local installing company said Tesla was selling this roof way too cheap and he would want more to make it worth his while to install it. His comment was based on the price in effect in Fall 2019, which dropped a lot in Winter/Spring 2020.

 

[wjgjr]

Other people here may already know this, but I did not know until this morning when I was talking to the owner of a fairly large solar installer company. They have been independent for years, but recently Tesla has been training them to install roof panels. So obviously, Tesla is using some existing independent companies to help meet the demand. Again, maybe you folks already knew that. Perhaps some of the price increase is due to the fact they have to share some profit with these other companies.

The main point of my post is this company was not aware of a big price increase issue as Tesla hadn't told them. When they caught wind of the price increase yesterday and all of the unhappy people out there, they are pulling out of being a Tesla installer as they don't want to risk potential reputation problems of their main business and have to deal with angry customers during installation. Now I wonder how many other independents might pull out and make the problem even worse for getting installations done.

For me, I don't have a horse in this race. I just read the popular threads and really interested in solar installation since one of my clients was a large inverter company. Wishing the best for you affected folks to get all this resolved to your satisfaction.

There have been a few discussions of Tesla Certified Installers for the Solar Roof. It appears that in these cases, the customer would interact only with the 3rd party, who has their own business arrangements with Tesla. I'm not sure if this company is in that situation or if they are acting as a subcontractor to Tesla on certain projects.

For the Tesla Certified Installers, I would think they have agreements in place that govern their business dealings, including materials acquisition costs. It would be interesting to know if Tesla tried to pull something similar with any of those companies. Beyond that, as somebody posted earlier in the thread that Tesla is now breaking out labor from materials, it is possible Tesla is moving towards a model of pushing these Certified Installers for more installs.

 

[Silicon Desert]

G,

They have been working with 3rd party installers to sell and install the SolarRoof for over a year. Our SolarRoof was sold by Tesla, and installed by a mixed Tesla and local installer crew.

However, you may be on to something. During the install, the owner of the local installing company said Tesla was selling this roof way too cheap and he would want more to make it worth his while to install it. His comment was based on the price in effect in Fall 2019, which dropped a lot in Winter/Spring 2020.

Thanks for that info. Good to know. That info aligns with what I was told this morning from another independent company.
And by the way, I hope you are doing well down there and like your solar.

 

[Vines]

Thanks for that info. Good to know. That info aligns with what I was told this morning from another independent company.
And by the way, I hope you are doing well down there and like your solar.

The firm I work for was offered Solar Roof installations, and it aligns well with out business clientele. I was initially excited to do them, i am glad I didnt jump in with both feet.

However we like to wait for more mature product offerings. We did the same and avoided the M190 and M215 microinverters. Now that the tech is more mature we install almost exclusively panels with integrated microinverters.

We decided not to pick up solar roof for those reasons and also because of the much reduced production compared to a similar sized retrofit panel product.

 

[jboy210]

There have been a few discussions of Tesla Certified Installers for the Solar Roof. It appears that in these cases, the customer would interact only with the 3rd party, who has their own business arrangements with Tesla. I'm not sure if this company is in that situation or if they are acting as a subcontractor to Tesla on certain projects.

For the Tesla Certified Installers, I would think they have agreements in place that govern their business dealings, including materials acquisition costs. It would be interesting to know if Tesla tried to pull something similar with any of those companies. Beyond that, as somebody posted earlier in the thread that Tesla is now breaking out labor from materials, it is possible Tesla is moving towards a model of pushing these Certified Installers for more installs.

I could definitely see Tesla trying to get out of the installation business and have 3rd party installers handle much of the business and buy training, certifications, and components from Tesla. Elon mentioned on an investor call that this was the goal back when the V3 roof was unveiled in Fall 2019.

 

[h2ofun]

The firm I work for was offered Solar Roof installations, and it aligns well with out business clientele. I was initially excited to do them, i am glad I didnt jump in with both feet.

However we like to wait for more mature product offerings. We did the same and avoided the M190 and M215 microinverters. Now that the tech is more mature we install almost exclusively panels with integrated microinverters.

We decided not to pick up solar roof for those reasons and also because of the much reduced production compared to a similar sized retrofit panel product.

You comment on much reduced production compare to panels is another reason I would only use panels. You can easily had, delete, move, etc. May not look as sexy, but much more functional, IMO

 

[Drmatty]

I received a phone call from Tesla, and was told my more than 100% price increase was a “business decision”. When I pushed, he informed me I could have my attorney request this go to arbitration. I don’t understand why Tesla is trying to alienate loyal customers!

 

[Silicon Desert]

You comment on much reduced production compare to panels is another reason I would only use panels. You can easily had, delete, move, etc. May not look as sexy, but much more functional, IMO

Well that was a big part of my decision to go panels. As well as the fact no one can see my panels, not even me, but I guess that is getting off topic.

 

[rspray2000]

The Consumer Advocacy and Response Division of the MA State Attorney General has agreed to advance my complaint to Tesla Energy. I am sure I'm not the only one in this state that is affected but they've said nothing about any other complaints they've recieved.

 

[rjpc]

Same thing happened to us. We have been waiting for more than 14 months and we have very much disappointed about their latest move. I don’t think we are going to move forward with this project.

 

[Southpasfan]

I am not a construction contract lawyer, but as a lawyer I note the contract appears to require "unforeseen circumstances" for Tesla to be able to cancel. Its perhaps not a surprise that no one has posted yet on what, exactly, the "unforeseen circumstance" was. Now, an individual project could have an almost unlimited number of unforeseen circumstances, but I am not sure that "wow, these installs are way more expensive than we thought" is unforeseen.

I mean, its a reason, sure, perhaps even an understandable one, but an "unforeseen" one? Moreover, it would, I suppose, have to have been unforeseen after Tesla signed the contract in dispute.

Not the most complicated arbitration, because as the homeowner you don't have to prove anything so you don't need any evidence. I would think Tesla would have the burden of showing exactly what was unforeseen, and importantly, when it became "foreseen."

I don't know, maybe in construction contracts unforeseen means "anything" - but compare the customer's right to cancel for any reason within a time period with Tesla's right to cancel.

 

[holeydonut]

Its perhaps not a surprise that no one has posted yet on what, exactly, the "unforeseen circumstance" was.

The first post of this thread is citing "roof complexity" as the unforeseen reason. The link they send people to says:
You will be notified if we assign a new level of complexity to your roof and your purchase price will be updated to reflect this after your system design is complete.

Inferring from the link they pointed people to, further review of the homeowner's unique project (the complexities of the roof heights, planes, obstructions, pitch, etc) have now factored into their latest assessment of complexity and costs.

I think it would be unprecedented (at least, as far as I'm aware in residential construction) if an arbitrator compelled Tesla to begin/complete their solar roof at the previously committed price. It's more likely an arbitrator will award damages for people having relied on the expectation of having a Tesla Solar Shingle Roof installed.

But I'm still hoping folks like @Bill_woolf chime in with feedback that says a lawyer is willing to push their case to get their Solar Roof at the original contract.

 

[rspray2000]

The first post of this thread is citing "roof complexity" as the unforeseen reason. The link they send people to says:
You will be notified if we assign a new level of complexity to your roof and your purchase price will be updated to reflect this after your system design is complete.

Inferring from the link they pointed people to, further review of the homeowner's unique project (the complexities of the roof heights, planes, obstructions, pitch, etc) have now factored into their latest assessment of complexity and costs.

Yeah I see they mention complexity, but my roof design “revision” (read only higher price) says nothing about the complexity. I saw their graphic. My roof is 2300 sq ft, is 5 rectangles with 3 vents and no joints. They increased it 27%. I also think it would have been more defensible if they didn’t increase all complexities of roofs.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Same thing happened to us. We have been waiting for more than 14 months and we have very much disappointed about their latest move. I don’t think we are going to move forward with this project.

14 months? really? I'm guessing one of two things. Either you have a lot more patience than I do (congrats on that), or has Tesla been stringing you allow every quarter with the "3 months maybe" thing?

 

[Southpasfan]

The first post of this thread is citing "roof complexity" as the unforeseen reason. The link they send people to says:
You will be notified if we assign a new level of complexity to your roof and your purchase price will be updated to reflect this after your system design is complete.

Inferring from the link they pointed people to, further review of the homeowner's unique project (the complexities of the roof heights, planes, obstructions, pitch, etc) have now factored into their latest assessment of complexity and costs.

I think it would be unprecedented (at least, as far as I'm aware in residential construction) if an arbitrator compelled Tesla to begin/complete their solar roof at the previously committed price. It's more likely an arbitrator will award damages for people having relied on the expectation of having a Tesla Solar Shingle Roof installed.

But I'm still hoping folks like @Bill_woolf chime in with feedback that says a lawyer is willing to push their case to get their Solar Roof at the original contract.

Well, I just spent a couple of minutes researching this that I won't get back, but frankly if one represents themselves as being in the roofing business, "roof complexity" seems like it would only work on a very, very initial bid where the contractor had no idea of the roof job they were bidding on.

Most of the cases on unforeseen circumstances requires something, like toxic waste, to be discovered on the construction site from what I just saw.

Anyway, what I would figure an actual construction lawyer would know would be that there must be some internal memos at Tesla on this decision. Those memos will very likely say something about how the costs are higher then they thought based on --- well this is the key -- based on what? The first 1,000 installs?

The date of that memo, if I was the arbitrator (and I would not be, as I have no specific construction experience) would be the date the additional costs became foreseeable. What would work against customers is the long lag time in orders. You would think having signed a contract a year ago would be a good fact, but if it boiled down to the day that these increased costs moved from "unforeseeable" to "foreseeable" newer contracts could be in better shape.

People have already posted about installs from a year or more ago that took a month. All you do as the customer is you say, "well, it was taking you a month to do a typical install in February of 2020. I signed up in March of 2020, you knew it could take a month before the contract was signed. Its not unforeseeable. Perform, please."

 

[dboya]

Most of the contracts state “unforeseen conditions at the installation location” which is more specific than just anything unforeseen as it must be something specific about the customers project. I find it hard to believe that people who have already had designs finalized and in person inspections can be said to have unforeseen conditions at their location.
Further, everyone who hasn’t had designs finalized or inspections are now ALL subject to these unforeseen conditions at every location?
I don’t really see how the unforeseen conditions “at the installation location” really gives Tesla an out on these contracts. It’s not like they arrive at someone’s location and realize steel or glass is now more expensive. Nothing to do with the location. If their satellite design was fairly accurate also I don’t see how an in person inspection would result in unforeseen conditions unless decking or complex repairs are needed, electrical, etc.
seems like they are using this clause but ignoring that the clause is specific to the customers location and not just anything that was unforeseen.

 

[h2ofun]

Most of the contracts state “unforeseen conditions at the installation location” which is more specific than just anything unforeseen as it must be something specific about the customers project. I find it hard to believe that people who have already had designs finalized and in person inspections can be said to have unforeseen conditions at their location.
Further, everyone who hasn’t had designs finalized or inspections are now ALL subject to these unforeseen conditions at every location?
I don’t really see how the unforeseen conditions “at the installation location” really gives Tesla an out on these contracts. It’s not like they arrive at someone’s location and realize steel or glass is now more expensive. Nothing to do with the location. If their satellite design was fairly accurate also I don’t see how an in person inspection would result in unforeseen conditions unless decking or complex repairs are needed, electrical, etc.
seems like they are using this clause but ignoring that the clause is specific to the customers location and not just anything that was unforeseen.

Just seems most folks need to get on with their life and make decisions. Companies can use the legal process to in most cases win. Their lawyers are smart.
I have had a number of things in this path that if I had known, I could have done differently and gotten "more" stuff. But that is not what has happened. Not worth wasting negative energy on something I cannot win on.