They likely know they are on the hook for that stuff anyway, one way or another (given the opinions of several in this thread, some of whom either happen to be lawyers (but not providing legal advice) or people who have been involved with construction contracting.
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Solar Roof, big price increase
- Thread starter nicholb
- Start date
They likely know they are on the hook for that stuff anyway, one way or another (given the opinions of several in this thread, some of whom either happen to be lawyers (but not providing legal advice) or people who have been involved with construction contracting.
So far it seems the bottom line though is folks will not get their solar roof at a price that Tesla loses their shorts. SO glad this product was not available when I redid my roof for solar 2 years ago!!! My solar has been running 9 months. Working on trying to get more. Batteries work great. Life is good.
I just looked back on my previous posts on this forum. They all seem to have a negative slant. I don't think it's because I'm a troll. I like a lot of Tesla products. Or rather I like the idea of a lot of Tesla products.
But my problem is that Tesla seem to have no problem treating their customers like complete crap. I bailed out of my Tesla roof because the wait times seemed insane. Then I bailed out of Tesla panels because although their prices are better then anyone else's they have abysmal customer service. And then I didn't buy a Tesla car because their self driving option just isn't.
I just don't understand why Tesla can't seem to deal with the fundamentals of a business. Tell the truth to your customers and follow through on what you say. It just seems very very basic
But my problem is that Tesla seem to have no problem treating their customers like complete crap. I bailed out of my Tesla roof because the wait times seemed insane. Then I bailed out of Tesla panels because although their prices are better then anyone else's they have abysmal customer service. And then I didn't buy a Tesla car because their self driving option just isn't.
I just don't understand why Tesla can't seem to deal with the fundamentals of a business. Tell the truth to your customers and follow through on what you say. It just seems very very basic
Pretty sure the reason for this new email is what my attorney stated above - if you've completed work that will not be beneficial for another suitable replacement then that would likely be considered real damages. I highly doubt a new AC unit would fall into that category. Can't harm to try though.
Coincidentally (and feel free to bash me for this!) I did sign my new agreement, despite a huge increase. Why? I'm doing an extremely large renovation to my house (reconstructing, really). When I originally priced it out, in 2019, the expected price was substantially higher than the price I signed in my first contract. I quoted out a normal roof with traditional solar panels and 6 powerwalls late last year. The quote came to $10k less than the new price of the Tesla roof. When the price was $50k less for a solar roof, it was a no brainer, but even at $170k, vs traditional roof and solar at $160k (especially since that was with the old pricing on powerwalls, so I assume it would be a wash now), it's worth it in my mind, because it's still much better looking. I've had several Tesla cars for years. They still have all kinds of problems (my 2020 Model X is still terribly noisy), but I still buy them.
I also spoke to my account manager, told him how disappointed I was, tried to find a way that they could try again, got verbatim the same answer that many on this forum have gotten..... then I took a deep breath and then told him that I'm sorry he has to be put through this - it must be an awful position for some account manager to be told by Elon Musk that they need to tell all their clients to go suck it. After this, his demeanor warmed up considerably - he and I chatted for a while, and it was clear that this week has been absolute hell for him. His relief and appreciation when I said this was palpable. He said he hates doing this to his clients, but is being forced to. After a few minutes of good conversation, he said "stick around for the survey - while they won't listen to what I have to say, the surveys go directly to the executive team". So I did - and I let them know that this was sickening business practice. As with everything else we're doing, I doubt it will help, but it certainly can't harm.
Good luck everyone.
Totally agree, it makes sense to have a dialog with Tesla regarding the items you want them to make right with you before clicking their cancel button.
Regarding the upgraded air conditioning, I think one could reasonably claim the difference between the AC actually purchased in preparation of getting the Tesla Energy products compared to what could have reasonably been purchased otherwise.
For example, let's pretend someone had a quote for a Goodman single stage 3 ton outdoor condensing unit to be installed. But, upon being advised by Tesla Energy (see link below), this person purchased a Goodman variable speed 3 ton outdoor condensing unit. The cost differential of Goodman 3 ton single stage vs variable speed is about $1,000. Also, let's assume this homeowner also has an email sent to Tesla's advisor informing them of this purchase decision. With this type of documentation, I believe this represents a type of damage because the homeowner had acted upon certain expectations outlined in Tesla's previous home improvement process and contract.
Good news is Tesla themselves have published that variable speed air conditioners can be reliably backed up with 2 PWs, while they imply some single stage air conditioners with high LRA cannot be backed up with two Powerwalls. So, it's reasonable to make the inference connecting the purchase of a more expensive variable speed unit air conditioning condenser to work alongside Powerwalls. Of course if there aren't Powerwalls on the order, I think this argument kind of loses steam...
What Can Powerwall Back Up | Tesla Support
Learn more about the variety of home appliances and EV charging equipment that Tesla Powerwall can backup.
I did end up sending it in as I'm no worse off if they say no. I included two arguments in my email. First I would not have upgraded if I was not installing solar. Second that I specifically chose a more expensive unit to be compatible with Solar/PW. I included the receipt and the quote showing the difference in price between a lower cost unit and the one I got. The quote specifically mentions the unit should be compatible with Tesla's PW requirements.
As someone who has spent their entire life in performing (or managing people who perform) customer service type roles, including managing people in a call center, I can tell you that I bet you made that workers day... maybe even their week.
Being on the "front lines" for something like this is horrific, yet they have to do it, and are expected to do it, and their phone calls are most likely recorded and archived so they can be "coached" on how to "deal with it better".
I almost always (not quite always, but almost) get what I want out of support people, because I know how to deal with them (because I know how I want people to deal with me, and who I will bend over backwards for, and who I will "stick to the rulebook / playbook" for. In most cases there is usually someone who can say "yes" to something (I am currently one of those people where I work). The trick is finding that person, and convincing them you are the person they want to "say yes / go to bat" for.
In Tesla's case, they have done an EXCELLENT job of hiding those individuals from customers (lol). They still exist (in any organization there is always someone with the authority to say yes), but they are completely hidden, shielded etc from customers in a way that many other companies quite frankly likely find envious.
I personally feel there should be an escalation path, but in this specific case, it would basically be "all existing solar roof customers". I still think this is the wrong decision by Tesla, but kudos to you for not taking it out on the line level employee.
I also got the email asking to submit receipts, and I have a couple hundred bucks worth of home depot receipts for tarps and roof repair sludge, but that doesn't nearly to begin to cover the cost of damage that my house sustained while waiting for the Tesla roof while the other guys didn't have the same backlog, and the increase in cost that I will likely have to incur going with the other guys now vs. what i would have paid with them 6 months ago.
Still fuming because a nearly ~$40k increase, and probably thousands lost with the missed opportunity of going with someone else 6 months ago and they are going to offer me ~$200.
Still fuming because a nearly ~$40k increase, and probably thousands lost with the missed opportunity of going with someone else 6 months ago and they are going to offer me ~$200.
It would be tempting to park a (non-Tesla) vehicle at the end of the driveway and (1) bill them for driveway rental and (2) bill them when they ask to remove the materials.
"The rental price of my driveway went up. Property taxes and such."
As it sinks in, one reason Tesla is going to keep quiet is that I really think they have a problem under the wording of the contract, getting the price wrong on labor is not an unforeseen circumstance.
Or, to put it another way, if 100 of these matters went to arbitration, Tesla could easily lose most of them. There are a ton of issues swirling around.
1. Tesla wrote the terms of the contract, if they wanted the right to cancel at any time, the contract would say so. It doesn't.
2. Tesla also structured the contract so that the homeowner only puts down $100 to get thousands of dollars of prep work and some amount of hard costs in terms of permit fees. Its odd, in terms of loss, Tesla loses more by cancelling the contracts then the homeowner does.
3. It was only a matter of time before the offer came through for measurable reliance damages. Tesla would know that most homeowners (not all) did not expend more money in reliance. At least not much compared to what Tesla would apparently lose having to go forward with the contract.
4. It does seem that there might be 1,000 or more solar roof contracts out there. If it were only a couple, Tesla probably would have performed and eaten the loss. I say that because using the online car purchase model, plus long waiting times, Tesla put itself in a position with respect to its cars to honor contracts and seems to have done so in that case, even including price adjustments downward when those happened after a person ordered the car but before delivery.
5. Tesla has to pay the costs of arbitration. Its a total bet that most customers won't bother, but some will. And some should, this isn't a situation where something was revealed about the product. If I wanted a solar roof at $80k instead of $140k, well, I'd go to arbitration for $60k. It would not, as some have said, have to be emotional or even stressful. Its not a divorce case.
6. Of course, we will never hear about those cases because there won't be many and Tesla will settle them with a confidentiality clause.
7. And the solar roof is either relatively unique or completely unique. I would not be shocked at all if Tesla went back and offered solar panels to this group of customers at a discount from its current solar prices. There does not seem to be any problem with panel system pricing, although there is a problem with type of roof.
I just wish it hadn't happened to anyone.
Of course, circling back to the beginning, not giving details about how this came about is only going to make people more upset. Ugh.
Or, to put it another way, if 100 of these matters went to arbitration, Tesla could easily lose most of them. There are a ton of issues swirling around.
1. Tesla wrote the terms of the contract, if they wanted the right to cancel at any time, the contract would say so. It doesn't.
2. Tesla also structured the contract so that the homeowner only puts down $100 to get thousands of dollars of prep work and some amount of hard costs in terms of permit fees. Its odd, in terms of loss, Tesla loses more by cancelling the contracts then the homeowner does.
3. It was only a matter of time before the offer came through for measurable reliance damages. Tesla would know that most homeowners (not all) did not expend more money in reliance. At least not much compared to what Tesla would apparently lose having to go forward with the contract.
4. It does seem that there might be 1,000 or more solar roof contracts out there. If it were only a couple, Tesla probably would have performed and eaten the loss. I say that because using the online car purchase model, plus long waiting times, Tesla put itself in a position with respect to its cars to honor contracts and seems to have done so in that case, even including price adjustments downward when those happened after a person ordered the car but before delivery.
5. Tesla has to pay the costs of arbitration. Its a total bet that most customers won't bother, but some will. And some should, this isn't a situation where something was revealed about the product. If I wanted a solar roof at $80k instead of $140k, well, I'd go to arbitration for $60k. It would not, as some have said, have to be emotional or even stressful. Its not a divorce case.
6. Of course, we will never hear about those cases because there won't be many and Tesla will settle them with a confidentiality clause.
7. And the solar roof is either relatively unique or completely unique. I would not be shocked at all if Tesla went back and offered solar panels to this group of customers at a discount from its current solar prices. There does not seem to be any problem with panel system pricing, although there is a problem with type of roof.
I just wish it hadn't happened to anyone.
Of course, circling back to the beginning, not giving details about how this came about is only going to make people more upset. Ugh.
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A lot of good points. This is an interesting question to consider - and given the number of TMC members who have joined just to express their understandable frustration, it is certainly possible. If there really are 1,000+ contracts, and the average contract was around $50k, with an increase around $20k (rough estimates, recognizing there is a large range posted in this thread) that still works out to Tesla trying to get tens of millions of dollars more for their work, and the total value of the contracts at stake (particularly post-increase) could be pushing $100m. The amounts don't justify what Tesla is doing, but it certainly could explain why they have adopted such a hard-line strategy on the hopes that the fallout from this decision will be less than their losses had they completed the contracts. (And, of course, we don't know exactly how much Tesla was losing on these contracts and whether the increase makes them profitable or just a smaller loss.)
Apparently every county has different set of fire code requirements and Tesla is still working to get the approval from our fire department. So they did not even have the chance to apply for the city permit. So the price hike is definitely not related to individual roof complexity. We have disappointed because we had the contract with Sunpower before switching to Tesla and we now regret doing so. Tesla said they were running special promotion on our area to accelerate our neighborhoods transition to sustainable energy and offered the special price to get us signed in. I can’t believe I fell into this crap. While waiting, we had to fix our leaky roof and replaced our electrical panel that cost us around 10k. Above all, have you noticed the tone in their recent emails as if they don’t need us anymore. I am not going back to Tesla for any other products as the treatment will be the same.
For some reason I can no longer get in touch with my original solar roof consultant, his voice mailbox is not working and no email reply yet. I called tesla and was on hold for close to an hour, the person I talked to stated that the price increase was due to the higher ups and not due to cost of materials nor the man power it takes to install but from the higher ups. He stated everyone who has NOT had their roof installed would get a price increase no matter the circumstance.
Seems like they have specific people who are taking these calls, the rep said he has been getting these types of calls all day today from unhappy customers.
I also asked if I could talk to anyone above him like management and he said it was not possible. I have had a couple of emails and text message reminding me to address the new design plans. My system is simply $20k more than the original quote.
So what's next? cancel? wait to see what happens?
Seems like they have specific people who are taking these calls, the rep said he has been getting these types of calls all day today from unhappy customers.
I also asked if I could talk to anyone above him like management and he said it was not possible. I have had a couple of emails and text message reminding me to address the new design plans. My system is simply $20k more than the original quote.
So what's next? cancel? wait to see what happens?
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I liked the person who posted that he first bid for panels, which were not V3, were much more than the V3 quote. But now with the increase, it is pretty close to his first quote. That was a very positive smart way to look at it, IMO
Same thing happened to me, my rep was not available (though she did eventually call me back). $20k increase, with install date in a few days...
I'm going to hold out and see what happens. I sent her a nice letter back, but no response yet (really don't expect one).
Taken to twitter and these forums as well. But I'm not going to cancel. Just see what happens...
Yeah I'm calling up the guy who did my previous estimate and having him requote. He did the renovations on pretty much my entire house, so i'm sure he'll be happy to give me a higher price.
Sounds like the way to go is to arbitrate? I'll probably try for the difference between estimates and the costs to fix the rain damage from the past 6 months, my guess is $15-20k total.
Sounds like the way to go is to arbitrate? I'll probably try for the difference between estimates and the costs to fix the rain damage from the past 6 months, my guess is $15-20k total.
I have worked enough with insurance claims the last 4 years that it is VERY hard to get real big money!!!!! Good luck
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