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SolarEdge EnergyHub. Powerwall 2 or SolarEdge Home battery?

Hi there

I have just had a SolarEdge Energy Hub installed and I am using their mySolarEdge app
I am still undecided what home battery to get. Their DC one or a powerwall 2

This dilemma has arisen whilst waiting near on 10 months for the Powerwall 2 (which I always had my heart set on) - so what to do now the solaredge alternative is actually available!?

These are my goals adding a battery

1/ Back up. I would like seamless backup of critical network gear.. hopefully with no power loss when the grid goes down which trips the gear. Like a true uninterrupted power supply. Is this possible with either battery choice here? Tesla (Y/N) SolarEdge (Y/N)?
2/ Which gives the better all around control of battery use, charge, discharge etc. My goal is to charge battery in AM thru midday and use battery to power house during hi peak rates from 3pm on... with occasional UPS reserve of critical gear during blackouts
3/ I currently own a Chedomo plug in PHEV. I hope to ALSO get a Tesla Y. So two EVs.. regarding using my batteries (either choice) which will be the better option ..with add on charger cable options etc?
4/ Using the apps. I'd like to stay all within the one App architecture but am aware if I go powerwall 2 I won't see it in the solaredge app. Is that correct? Is there a workaround here?
5/ Power monitoring. Do I still get the SolarEdge monitors installed at the switchboard or does Tesla have their own? What if I want to add further monitoring of sub boards? and large loads like pool pumps and aircons?
6/ If I integrate a powerwall into the SolarEdge energy hub am I basically using the Energy hub as a dumb inverter? ..And never use it;s "smarts"?
7/ How long until the Powerwall 3? a realistic time frame please...
8/ Have a got the correct impression that Tesla and SE are developing into two competing proprietary systems that will never fully integrate?

Thanks!
 
Way too many questions here, so let me hit some of them for you. I have a SolarEdge system with 28 panels plus I have a HoyMiles system with 8 panels all on my roof with two Powerwalls. Plus two Teslas and an in ground spa in the backyard. The 70amp sub panel in the backyard is not connected to the Powerwalls. I have two 50amp outlets in the garage. One is off the batteries and the other is off the main panel. The main monitoring I use to see power usage and solar production is the Tesla App. I use SolarEdge only to make sure all panels are producing the proper amount of power. The HoyMiles app again is really to see individual panel solar production. The Tesla App combines both systems and shows me house usage and total solar production. I also make money with Tesla Powerwalls as a Virtual Power Plant for my local power company. I like the Tesla App works very well and support is excellent.
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BGbreeder

Active Member
Jun 19, 2020
1,113
791
Bay Area
Hi there

I have just had a SolarEdge Energy Hub installed and I am using their mySolarEdge app
I am still undecided what home battery to get. Their DC one or a powerwall 2

This dilemma has arisen whilst waiting near on 10 months for the Powerwall 2 (which I always had my heart set on) - so what to do now the solaredge alternative is actually available!?

These are my goals adding a battery

1/ Back up. I would like seamless backup of critical network gear.. hopefully with no power loss when the grid goes down which trips the gear. Like a true uninterrupted power supply. Is this possible with either battery choice here? Tesla (Y/N) SolarEdge (Y/N)?
2/ Which gives the better all around control of battery use, charge, discharge etc. My goal is to charge battery in AM thru midday and use battery to power house during hi peak rates from 3pm on... with occasional UPS reserve of critical gear during blackouts
3/ I currently own a Chedomo plug in PHEV. I hope to ALSO get a Tesla Y. So two EVs.. regarding using my batteries (either choice) which will be the better option ..with add on charger cable options etc?
4/ Using the apps. I'd like to stay all within the one App architecture but am aware if I go powerwall 2 I won't see it in the solaredge app. Is that correct? Is there a workaround here?
5/ Power monitoring. Do I still get the SolarEdge monitors installed at the switchboard or does Tesla have their own? What if I want to add further monitoring of sub boards? and large loads like pool pumps and aircons?
6/ If I integrate a powerwall into the SolarEdge energy hub am I basically using the Energy hub as a dumb inverter? ..And never use it;s "smarts"?
7/ How long until the Powerwall 3? a realistic time frame please...
8/ Have a got the correct impression that Tesla and SE are developing into two competing proprietary systems that will never fully integrate?

Thanks!
Here goes. Just my personal viewpoints...
  1. These are not AC to DC to Battery to Inverter to AC high end UPS devices. Depending on how the grid fails (instantaneous vs brown out) and the state of charge of the batteries and whether they are already providing power to the home there may or may not be a drop out. If you are in self powered mode and the batteries are running the hose, you might see a flicker.
  2. This is mostly about enough solar and enough battery capacity for your loads. Both support time of use rates.
  3. Tesla cars communicate with Tesla batteries for some options on charging, but many of the features are available from other sources. I would research it to see what is important to you. For many users direct charging for solar is a common goal.
  4. Yes, apps are manufacturer specific at the moment, but there are some third party apps that do some things. I would not expect a unifying app any time soon, and I would expect the unified app to break on software updates from the manufacturers. My big comment is that these devices shouldn't require manual control, unless you are under installed for capacity, either generation or storage or both.
  5. Tesla monitors home, total solar output, battery output and state of charge. See the prior comment about micro level monitoring that basically boils down to "why bother?".
  6. Tesla would monitor gross output, but if you want anything else, it would be in the solar edge app.
  7. This one is easy. Call Elon on his mobile and ask him. Anything else is a pure WAG.
  8. No manufacturer voluntarily integrates with a competitor unless they think it will add profit to their own bottom line. I would look for cross platform support in 2050-2070 or so. Longer if Elon is still in charge at Tesla.
I am reminded of carbureted engines and how deeply enthusiasts got into the relative performance and tuning of them. Then fuel injection came along and the party was over. I feel the same way about micro monitoring my loads. If I think that something is an energy hog, I might monitor it once and then there are solutions. Yes, I keep an occasional eye on the quiescent house draw to make sure that there isn't a phantom load that needs to be addressed, but I don't run a hotel or conference center where breaker level monitoring would have some utility. YMWV.

All the best,

BG
 
@BGbreeder that is such an awesome reply and thanks so much for spending the time to respond. I really dislike the way the industry is going here- to try lock down home owners to the one all in system with the one manufacturer. Whilst I understand the cross selling and profit driven motifs here - and why installers would do this (easier, kickbacks from one manufacturer, etc etc)..is this really the best long term outcome for end users? Reminds me of the early days of home automation. Companies like Control4, Crestron... they tried. Kept their products only updateable by installers - and look at the end result. Went out of business (Control delisted and was bought out by snapAV) and endless frustration with consumers not being able to update their systems unless they use the installer (who also goes out of business, gets lazy with customer support, busy doing new installs). This past experience made me immediately avoid enphase (for example) as an all in one system. As for SolarEdge energy hub.. I went with that - convinced they would be a little more "open" - only to be shocked to find after I installed their inverter that I couldn't configure it or control the smarts of their new battery without the Installer app. This app is not available to the end user. You say things are "set and forget" - but that is never the case in my experience. It wasn't with home automation (been there done that with Control4). And it won't be with home energy. For example - what if my power company suddenly changes it's off peak vs peak rate times? How do I configure that in my solaredge battery without calling the installer? At least (or so it seems) with Tesla and the powerwall they offer reasonable end user configurability. I am seriously thinking of going with them for the battery (powerwall)...for that reason alone - I (and not the installer) can control the battery smarts and then snappee for power monitoring and battery charger. Given Tesla don't seem to be interested in individual sub load monitoring. Your thoughts?
 
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Way too many questions here, so let me hit some of them for you. I have a SolarEdge system with 28 panels plus I have a HoyMiles system with 8 panels all on my roof with two Powerwalls. Plus two Teslas and an in ground spa in the backyard. The 70amp sub panel in the backyard is not connected to the Powerwalls. I have two 50amp outlets in the garage. One is off the batteries and the other is off the main panel. The main monitoring I use to see power usage and solar production is the Tesla App. I use SolarEdge only to make sure all panels are producing the proper amount of power. The HoyMiles app again is really to see individual panel solar production. The Tesla App combines both systems and shows me house usage and total solar production. I also make money with Tesla Powerwalls as a Virtual Power Plant for my local power company. I like the Tesla App works very well and support is excellent. View attachment 848548 View attachment 848548 View attachment 848549 View attachment 848549 View attachment 848550 View attachment 848550
very cool.. have you considered individual circuit monitoring and control? - to say run the pool and spa pump during the day (when the sun is out) etc..
 
@BGbreeder that is such an awesome reply and thanks so much for spending the time to respond. I really dislike the way the industry is going here- to try lock down home owners to the one all in system with the one manufacturer. Whilst I understand the cross selling and profit driven motifs here - and why installers would do this (easier, kickbacks from one manufacturer, etc etc)..is this really the best long term outcome for end users? Reminds me of the early days of home automation. Companies like Control4, Crestron... they tried. Kept their products only updateable by installers - and look at the end result. Went out of business (Control delisted and was bought out by snapAV) and endless frustration with consumers not being able to update their systems unless they use the installer (who also goes out of business, gets lazy with customer support, busy doing new installs). This past experience made me immediately avoid enphase (for example) as an all in one system. As for SolarEdge energy hub.. I went with that - convinced they would be a little more "open" - only to be shocked to find after I installed their inverter that I couldn't configure it or control the smarts of their new battery without the Installer app. This app is not available to the end user. You say things are "set and forget" - but that is never the case in my experience. It wasn't with home automation (been there done that with Control4). And it won't be with home energy. For example - what if my power company suddenly changes it's off peak vs peak rate times? How do I configure that in my solaredge battery without calling the installer? At least (or so it seems) with Tesla and the powerwall they offer reasonable end user configurability. I am seriously thinking of going with them for the battery (powerwall)...for that reason alone - I (and not the installer) can control the battery smarts and then snappee for power monitoring and battery charger. Given Tesla don't seem to be interested in individual sub load monitoring. Your thoughts?

There are benefits of all in one systems since things are tested a lot more since they have less variables to deal with. Look at the Apple ecosystem. Apple recently overtook Android as the majority phone in the USA. We all know how windows crashes/blue screen of death, etc etc (and I'm neither an iOS user nor mac owner), but windows having to make all things work simply complicates the situation. That's a fact of life with tech.


Also, as an Enphase owner and user, it's all in their locked environment, but there are some things on the horizon which might be better and benefits that it is like that so it might be worth it. They bought Clippercreek to supposedly, build integration into their environment (really not needed IMO and I don't care for that). There is the available integration now with generators already and there is a decently wide list supported which I think is hugely beneficial. If I was to do an install now, I'd very likely add one, but don't see a huge need just yet (power too stable here).

There is research/press releases on integration with V2H which I think will be the big one if it happens (I've read 2024). They are working on it. Tesla may consider that, but Elon has came out saying V2H isn't needed since it'll hurt their sales of powerwalls in the past. We'll see.

I don't think Tesla is out to help you neither. All companies are out to look out for themselves so what BGbreeder wrote is true that they aren't going to do you/me any favors.

I'm not sure what you want to really tweak as an enduser/home owner, but you can always certify yourself on Enphase (they have a university/training that I did some of) and get a installer login. For me so far, I've done what I need with my available free time. Cost wasn't anymore than PW if you don't use Tesla, but yeah, you're locked in 1 eco-system (like you can't use Span panels with Enphase). I don't foresee SE and Tesla partnering since Tesla already uses their own inverter now and cut everyone else out so it's the Tesla eco-system or nothing in a way like everyone else.

LFP chemistry alone made be avoid PWs, but that's just me (that and of course, no one had PWs when I was doing my install).


Wanted to add, for your battery choice, I know in my research, I was hesitant to install anything that hasn't been deployed in a large scale (from what I read) so I didn't even consider LG (lots of bad comments on this one) nor SolarEdge, SunPower, NeoVolta, etc...

I think as long as you generally know what the power draw of things are, after the novelty wears off, there is less and less need to micromanage things IMO.

(as you can tell, I'm a huge fan of Enphase so I am probably biased), but I don't think a lot of folks here will knock their stuff neither as it generally works, has good warranty, and they are certainly a big player currently.
 
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@sunwarriors Sure - thanks so much for the reply. I'll take a look at Enphase. A lot of their new stuff doesn't seem to be here right now - but I will take a closer look at their battery and end solution. I agree the fact that it is Lithium Fe Po4 is a major plus. Agree. I'd need two like you though to cope with the initial power surge of my loads. Getting (exclusive) access (as an end user) into dealer only software can seem a solution for a while. The locked in thing can come back and bite you though dude. Like I said been there done that with Control4. Yep I got access to their dealer only software as well...just like you..by doing their training. Actually even became a software developer (as a work around) which was great (for a while) only to be shut out later on when my dealer went broke, could no longer give me certain keys I needed to get access and they kinda found out and cancelled my login. Never underestimate the power of the corporate-dealer relationship dude. As an end user of these sort of products you are never the actual customer of the organisation that manufactures the product or distributes the controlling software. I waited for Control4 to change their attitude for over 10 years. To allow end users more access to tweaking things and adding new product. They never did. These attitudes tend to stick for product life IMHO. If they aren't end user customer focused from the start (like Tesla) they will never be. See this is the great genius of Elon. Its; not the actual cars, or satellite internet tech. Sure, they generate excitement and all.. I get it. But his genius and why he has been so successful is not all that, his genius is he has made Tesla end user focused. He has bypassed the dealer only locked in model. That is his genius. That is why he made Powerwall2 AC (Powerwall 1 was DC). So it could work with any solar system. So any electrician could install it...You wouldn't have to go to a locked in solar company to add. By follow on then, Tesla had to give more software control to the end user. And why the Tesla ecosystem is so attractive to me. Maybe I should just put in a relatively cheap third party load monitoring setup so I can use all my power when it's being sun generated (rather than export it and store it) and wait for the LFP Powerwall 3. I just wish the Tesla home power solution could have more easy to use monitoring and management of minor loads. I have raised this in another thread. Appreciate the fantastic discussion. :)
 
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