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Sold my Model S after 5.5 years...moving on

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eye.surgeon

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
1,368
2,014
California
I've loved my S85, but when Tesla with no explanation or notice capped my supercharging speed to less than half the former speed with a software update almost a year ago as has been done to most if not all older cars. that was it for me. My car is now a city car. Long trips are not practical when it takes 90+ minutes to supercharge. My car only had 40k miles on it when this was done.

You can peruse the chargegate threads, all 500+ pages of them, for the reason why Tesla is doing this but the bottom line is that it's to avoid battery failures during the warranty period. The equivalent would be for GM to disable 4 cylinders in your Corvette via an unannounced software update to reduce engine failures under warranty.

I've loved my Tesla and hope to be back someday when Tesla can guarantee reasonable charge rates for the life of the battery pack. Car is sold and new car is in the garage. Not going to get into what I got because I don't want to turn this thread into a Tesla superfan hatefest but it's not an EV.
 

MXLRplus

Active Member
Mar 11, 2020
1,595
2,452
Eastvale, CA
I've loved my S85, but when Tesla with no explanation or notice capped my supercharging speed to less than half the former speed with a software update almost a year ago as has been done to most if not all older cars. that was it for me. My car is now a city car. Long trips are not practical when it takes 90+ minutes to supercharge. My car only had 40k miles on it when this was done.

You can peruse the chargegate threads, all 500+ pages of them, for the reason why Tesla is doing this but the bottom line is that it's to avoid battery failures during the warranty period. The equivalent would be for GM to disable 4 cylinders in your Corvette via an unannounced software update to reduce engine failures under warranty.

I've loved my Tesla and hope to be back someday when Tesla can guarantee reasonable charge rates for the life of the battery pack. Car is sold and new car is in the garage. Not going to get into what I got because I don't want to turn this thread into a Tesla superfan hatefest but it's not an EV.

Ironically the newer Corvettes do deactivate up to 4 cylinders digitally. ;)
(and I will have a 2021 in red thank you)

Life is to short for hassles. When a car becomes a hassle, no matter how much you love it, it's time it found a new home.

Two of my favorite cars left me for new owners because it hurt too much to love them anymore... :D
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,216
717
Cary, NC
Eye - I know you have been around awhile and an enthusiastic owner.

Just a random question, how much roadtripping (long enough to require supercharging) did you do with 40k in 5.5 years?

I am coming up on 5 years and 83k. I have supercharged a couple of times since chargegate and it was slow (haven't really confirmed anything - one time the battery was freezing). I didn't really need it so I just drove on. I am not a huge supercharger anyway.

We have a 3LR in the house now and compared to my 70D even at full charge speed, it wins out. So any really long trip, we take the 3.

I would just make the argument that you spent more time shopping for that new car and filling it with gas then you ever spent supercharging. I do understand the frustration though. Just not sure that it was rational. You could always go to a rental car for long trips. Financially and time wise a better option for sure. By financially - better than buying a new car.

My 70D might be a city car but it is a fantastic one and depreciating very slowly at this point. And it takes me to almost anywhere I travel with any regularity - like 150 miles to our beach house or 170 miles to the in-laws.

So break down the math for me. How many hours waiting at superchargers in the year since throttling? And how much excess depreciation are you paying for every day now? And when is your first service visit on the new car?

I get that I might be labeled a fanboy. I just think your case would be better made if you made 400 mile trips once a month. And maybe you do and bike to the office. Chargegate is frustrating for sure and it lowered the value of my car probably $5k but that doesn't make me want to spend $50k to get over it. Especially not when the income outlook is less rosy for the next year....
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
2,968
9,172
MI
What I’m surprised about is that people who had early versions of the car, are surprised that there are potential future unknowns.

There’s a reason why you were considered an “early adopter”. There are going to be unknowns over time. I have a 2017 S90D and so far so good. I have 45k miles on it in 3 years and that’s with it being stored for several months of the year in the winter. So I wonder how much time you really did spend at superchargers.

I do think Tesla should have been more open about the reduced supercharging speeds and maybe offered an incentive to buy a new version that is less likely to have those issues.

I’m keeping my Tesla until I no longer enjoy it. And if mine becomes an annoyance, I’ll simply buy another with more features and less cost. Why? Because when they work, there’s nothing else like them. Also to not have had autopilot, that is worth it right there to upgrade. I will also never buy a gas car again. I’m tired of being part of the problem. EVs are the best for this country and our lungs. Especially important with COVID. Big oil be damned.
 

Darmie

Supporting Member
Jan 13, 2016
1,575
1,081
Clear Lake TX.
Sorry to hear about the troubles. As MXLRplus says, life to short for the hassle. Half of our driving has been on the road with our Model X. I think of this issue often and always leave out with full battery so to skip a charger. Charge at AC destination as often as we can but, I know the days are numbered. Looking in the future on the next purchase, I flip flop between the 3 performance or the S performance (5 + years from now). One nail in the coffin for the S is knowing throttling may happen. It's going to be interesting to see what if anything happens to the Model 3 or Y as the years go on. Wish the best in your travels with the new vehicle. Fully understand the decision.
 

Gwgan

Almost a wagon
Aug 11, 2013
2,862
2,117
Maine
I watched the Dahn video, since embargoed, where he talked about significant battery life extension from simply changing the additive. We don’t know yet if or when this chemistry is deployed. I’m waiting to hear about the true million mile battery before replacing my 4 year old—probably soon to be city-only car—with a new Tesla. I empathize with eye.sugeon’s situation but would probably just rent a trip car if needed since new batteries are near.
 
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gigawatt1010

Member
Aug 21, 2016
494
482
Orange County, New York
My 2016 MS 60D that I charge to a 100% all the time since new gives me a projected 205/206 miles everytime. I have a HPWC at home in my garage and I was fortunate enough that my job installed a HPWC charger and another regular charger for non-tesla cars at our office. So my car is always fully charged whether I'm going to work or going home from work.

We've driven my MS60D all over, including 3 trips from NY to Florida (twice to Orlando and once to Key West) as well as several trips up and down the I-95 (NY-DC; NY-Maine; NY-RI, etc). Outside of those roadtrips, I never needed to supercharge on my daily home-work commute despite the Paramus, NJ Supercharger being along my daily commute.

Quite frankly, I've never heard of this throttling issue until this thread. My MS has well over 80k miles in almost 4 years and I do plan on trading it up for a newer MS, but throttling will not be the reason. I'm waiting for the plaid powertrain.

Maybe this is quite a fan boy statement, but I just don't see myself in a modern gas car after driving EVs, particularly Tesla's. We kept my wife's Mini Cooper S Convertible with a 6 speed manual for when we miss rowing gears but it's now just a Summer Sunday car.
 

cduzz

Member
Jun 6, 2019
415
514
boston ma
People (like me) with the 90 batteries kvetch about high degradation but in my experience the true value of a tesla is the supercharger network and the ability to dump 120 miles into it in 15 minutes or less. I'm super happy that tesla's "stolen" range not charging speed from me....

With my car on a road trip, I charge it to 100% overnight (I try to time it to finish less than an hour before I leave in the morning) and then skip over 2 or 3 chargers and hit the last one with 8% of charge (at about 180 miles away). After the first "hop" I leave the supercharger at 60% *or* when I've got enough charge to get home. For that 5% to 60%, my car can hit 110kwh and tapers to 85-90kwh -- not as fast as a 3 but tolerable.

If the car had the charge rate nerfed like with the 85, it'd make these road trips take an extra hour or two, which would make charge stops unbearable instead of a refreshing opportunity to stretch my legs.

That said, if you want an electric car, the other fast charge networks still don't seem as good as the supercharger network. I couldn't go back to driving a chuggy chug boom boom car -- every time I drive my wife's car I get irrationally angry at the transmission and the random 0.5-3 second pause between the fast pedal and when the car actually decides to accelerate.

In the long term, I suspect that tesla will sell almost affordable replacement packs that are a similar weight to the existing 85/90 packs but made up of the 100 pack architecture missing cells/modules. These 85 stinkers will taint the brand and clog the supercharger network. They've sold updated packs for the roadster and have an upgrade path for the MCU1. In that theme, I wouldn't be surprised if they start selling update packs for $9000 once they 85s come off the 8 year warranty period. I could also be completely wrong.
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
2,968
9,172
MI
...for now. What happens when they start capping them in 2 years?

Tesla is lucky they have a rabid fan base. Otherwise their shady business practices would have caught up with them by now.

Im going on 4. Not capped.
 
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SilverGS

Active Member
Nov 3, 2016
1,509
799
Ontario
Im going on 4. Not capped.
How are you going on 4 when the M3 came out in 2018? That's what @SSSimon is referring to.

My 2016 75D isn't capped yet and even if it was (I've seen 120 kw charge speeds for 5 - to 10 mins), for the times I have to supercharge on a trip, I always time it with a stop for coffee/food/washroom break, so the potential increased charging time should not have much impact.
 

garrett5688

Member
Oct 7, 2017
573
992
DFW
OP,
I hope you’re still eligible for whatever compensation is offered once the lawsuits over batterygate/chargegate are sorted.

The only reason I’m hanging on to my P85D is for them to cut me a check for all this BS. Then I plan to drop it like a hot potato.

exactly how much do you expect to receive, and how long are you willing to wait? My guess is that OP assumes (as do I) that whatever the amount, it’s not worth holding onto and being unhappy for an unknown amount of time. Life’s too short, move on.
 
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SSedan

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
2,948
2,315
Greenville Wisconsin
I'm not sure if people are looking at this right. I'm trying to find an ICE equivalent to this scenario. But last time I checked, there were no ICE vehicles that came with free gas?

This is a koolaid drinkers response.
Are ICE advertised with a fueling rate and in some cases as road trip fueling free for life?
Please cite an example and what the response was when fueling speed was slowed.

Maybe a closer analogy would be the VW owners who had to accept software updates to fix dieselgate that compensated people or bought back cars that lost performance and economy.

Suppose you think that was wrong for VW to face consequences?
 

David.85D

Active Member
Oct 29, 2016
1,418
1,162
USA
What I’m surprised about is that people who had early versions of the car, are surprised that there are potential future unknowns.

There’s a reason why you were considered an “early adopter”. There are going to be unknowns over time. I have a 2017 S90D and so far so good. I have 45k miles on it in 3 years and that’s with it being stored for several months of the year in the winter. So I wonder how much time you really did spend at superchargers.

I do think Tesla should have been more open about the reduced supercharging speeds and maybe offered an incentive to buy a new version that is less likely to have those issues.

Let’s translate this into other experiences. Say you buy a new house in a new development, everything under warranty. At some time some of your neighbors have a problem that their front door starts making a squeaky noise when you open it. Some think it is an indication the front door unit should be replaced. The builder doesn’t reveal what they know.

The builder, unilaterally, makes a change to every front door so it takes 5 minutes to open or close, but remains quiet. Doesn’t give you a choice about the change, doesn’t warn you the change will be made.

Would that be ok? Just the risk of being an early adopter? Or a dodge to avoid warranty obligations?
 
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