Your style of debate is ineffective and makes enemies of those that might otherwise support some of your positions. Is your intent entertainment or is it important to you to convince others and make converts? Think about it. Most all of us support EV adoption, but you are not helping.
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Sold my Model S after 5.5 years...moving on
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AMPd
Well-Known Member
Most cases see a doubling in time needed to charge. That’s far more than a fraction, but sure keep lying and trying. I love seeing you huff and puff
Nothing goes better with a piece of prime rib than reading your posts
Keep em coming bud!
Does that doubling in time refer to supercharging speeds only or also charging at home?
And if only at superchargers, is that really part of the warranty?
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Agreed. We also still have that luxury of thinking that climate change doesn’t cost anything because those costs are hidden....as well as fossil fuels being priced to hide their true costs.
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The earth will survive no matter what we do to it. In a million years, none of this will matter. A million years is like a blip on the cosmic scale and age of earth. But I think the goal of humans is to make this home of ours habitable for us as long as possible.
Anyway, these climate change posts are too OT.
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CraZ8
Member
Hear hear! From where I type this message I would have had a few thousand feet of ice over my head 10,000 years ago. I doubt the few roving gangs of hunter gathers were causing this climate change with their campfires. Am I a climate denier? Hardly. I think man has ultimately very little to do with the cycles this planet goes through. I do think it’s wise to phase in renewable energy as fast as possible relying on technological innovations as long as it doesn’t add stress and hardship to the people and societies lower on the socioeconomic scale. I’ll be doing my part driving teslas and putting in a solar array with battery back up at my house. But I wouldn’t be so hard on people not willing or able to make that jump yet. I think the market will drive those decisions In that direction in the next 10 to 20 years. My two cents.
whitex
Well-Known Member
My point was that 30% is a new number added to the new car's warranty. The old one did not specify a number, however Tesla used to advice 20% as the threshold. To make matters worse, from what I read here, they don't consider firmware capping as battery degradation either - no surprise of course, Tesla will interpret things whichever way saves them money, like yellow screen is now a wear item, P85D 691hp spec was for theoretical motor spec, if that motor was in a different car, because the car Tesla sold it in would need 50% more powerful battery system to enable the full advertised power of the motor, etc, etc.
My post wasn’t meant to give a free pass to manmade climate change. I do think humans are causing changes far faster than natural cycles. Rising oceans and changing weather patterns will cause great stress to humans in the coming decades. So my point is that we should do what we can to mitigate those for humans sake. The earth itself would be better off without us and will recover once we are gone. And in a few billion years, the earth will be swallowed up by the sun. But I’m not willing to leave just yet.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
Supercharging, and if you still don’t understand the issue then there’s no point in me explaining it to you.
So for the vast majority of the time people use their car, charging speeds are no different than the day it was purchased. It’s ONLY when using the supercharger network which is there for trip convenience only. It’s not a benefit you are absolutely guaranteed to use while owning a Tesla since people can be barred from it. And it is not “required” for long distance travel since there are other charging options. Just wanted to know for sure. That will probably be brought up in court weakening the case against Tesla (at least in regards to the charging time complaint).
And yes people today buy Tesla with that network in mind. Five years ago, probably not quite so much since it was very sparse.
Im not saying this is “right”. Just saying that is how it is.
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You'll want to spend less time watching Faux News (it makes you look less than bright when you step out of the bubble
New study undercuts favorite climate myth ‘more CO2 is good for plants’
CO2 is making Earth greener—for now – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet
‘Global Greening’ Sounds Good. In the Long Run, It’s Terrible.
Perhaps you can explain why the Vostok ice core samples contradict the accepted dogma of CO2 elevation preceding warming.
I always enjoy these type of debates, typed by people typing on Macs and iphones, who go from their AC/heated place to a lithium-battery polluting hell of a car, seemingly oblivious to the slurry of pollution that are the by-products of production and use. Why none of these typers are willing to give those things up in the name of progress is part of the reason many educated folks find the religion of man-made global warming exactly that. Like most fallible humans/religious people, we all like to pick those parts of our faith that comfort us and choose to ignore the parts that do not.
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AMPd
Well-Known Member
I would disagree with that based on my own personal decision to buy the car which I made after seeing the supercharger network and the expansion plans. Without the supercharger network the car would have been useless to me
MXLRplus
Active Member
I've been driving on juice since late 2012. Not to save the planet, because I enjoy EVs in traffic more than ICE options.
I operate a large solar array, not to save the planet, but to save money. SCE wrecked that in March 2019.
I will do something dirty this morning. It's raining so I will drive my EV to work instead of bicycle. I bicycle for health, not to save a kitten and a dollar.
I feel no need to 'sell' EVs to others, although I've let dozens of friends and acquaintances drive my EVs.
And when people ask me about solar, I tell them the unvarnished truth. For many people, the CPUC/SCE has made it a poor decision.
When I discussed buying a Tesla with my friends, many tried to talk me out of it. They didn't want me to turn into traveling tofu and health crystal salesman. Even EV people sneer at the zealots on both sides: The EV martyrs, and the misinformed ICE owners.
The EV movement does not need a Westboro EV Club protesting at funerals. We will do fine without it. Please.
I operate a large solar array, not to save the planet, but to save money. SCE wrecked that in March 2019.
I will do something dirty this morning. It's raining so I will drive my EV to work instead of bicycle. I bicycle for health, not to save a kitten and a dollar.
I feel no need to 'sell' EVs to others, although I've let dozens of friends and acquaintances drive my EVs.
And when people ask me about solar, I tell them the unvarnished truth. For many people, the CPUC/SCE has made it a poor decision.
When I discussed buying a Tesla with my friends, many tried to talk me out of it. They didn't want me to turn into traveling tofu and health crystal salesman. Even EV people sneer at the zealots on both sides: The EV martyrs, and the misinformed ICE owners.
The EV movement does not need a Westboro EV Club protesting at funerals. We will do fine without it. Please.
Well said! I just enjoy driving an EV - the instantaneous and relentless thrust, butter smooth acceleration with no noise and the almost one pedal driving is why I have a Model S. Not having to pay for gas (its costs me 10% in electricity vs gas to drive my S) is the icing on the cake.
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Don't play dumb. You know very well what I'm talking about here: #batterygate and #chargegate. Both of those are a result of defective batteries, not regular degradation. I've seen your attempts at stifling the conversation in the huge class action lawsuit thread over this exact issue. You're nothing but a Tesla shill trying to squash negative news to help your own stock value. Transparent. Pathetic. Predictable.
I'm not going to argue with you here, as your ranting and raving has already been sufficiently discredited in the other thread. For anyone else interested, go visit this thread where affected owners have had 10% or more capacity removed from their batteries overnight by Tesla to cover up for a battery defect that plagues many tens of thousands of Tesla vehicles. Tesla's actions are the subject of a class action lawsuit and NHTSA inquiry.
Some of the people here are ridiculous in basically saying, so what if Tesla removed battery capacity via a software update to prevent its batteries from catching on fire, you still enjoy more range than a Porsche! The constant and incessant need among some to deflect bonafide issues to help Tesla look better is mind boggling.
ANYONE WITH A 85 KWH BATTERY (or sudden range loss, or sudden reduction in Supercharging speed) SHOULD READ THIS THREAD!
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SmartElectric
Active Member
My feedback : As an owner of an original 2013 Tesla S85 with throttled supercharging (90 kW peak, mostly 60 kW) from factory (remember, early 85's were limited supercharging due to internal battery pack hardware/wiring), lower charging rates haven't restricted our road trips at all, and we've done 1000 km in a day quite a few times, needing multiple charging stops. Toronto -> NY City we did when supercharging stalls were just available and low rates (80 kW peak, 50 kW as SOC > 50) back in 2015, and we found the trips convenient.
Claiming you have a city car is a exaggerated overstatement and is a clear indication you're operating on emotion, as logically, the charging speed is suitable for trips of 1000 km, of which you acknowledged you rarely do having only done 10000 km per year on average.
Emotion is fine, but walking away from EV's because Tesla has upset you emotionally is truly unfortunate. Hope your car goes to a home that travels a lot and can make good use of the long range.
I'm sure emotion played a role in my decision but I'm a pretty level headed person, my main concern was the value of these capped cars dropping as it became more widely known that they are crippled. The car was at the residual value where I could use the sale to fully fund the car I wanted, which I did, new car with new car warranty. If I had waited 6 months that would not have been the case.
As for the increased time for road trips, the time it took to charge prior to the cap at 100+ kwh was already kind of a hard sell for my wife and family. Charging at 50kwh and essentially doubling the time it took to charge on the road was a definite deal-breaker. Again I am not talking about battery degradation here. My supercharging speed was software capped to half speed overnight with no notification at 40,000 miles.
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We have a "classic" S85 and have definitely noticed the reduction in Supercharging speed and regen. On road trips, the slower Supercharging hasn't been a significant issue for us because we often end up doing other things while the car is charging, and the car is usually ready before we are. However, the reduced regenerative braking is more of a pain because we live on a mountain and rely on regen to descend 4900 vertical feet down to the valley below. Pre-heating the battery is now only good for about 15 kW of sustained regen. As a result, we end up driving significantly more slowly when descending in the Model S, so as to avoid over-use of the brakes. (Thankfully, we're still no slower than many other drivers.) Even our 2018 Model 3 has a bit less regen than when it was new.
Do I consider these limitations to be "defects"? No. They reflect tradeoffs inherent to most if not all commercial lithium ion batteries. Our Model S has over 177K miles on the odometer, so we feel we've gotten very good use out of it, and we're optimistic that the current charge/regen restrictions will help keep the battery pack functioning for years to come.
I can understand the OP's frustration at encountering charge/regen restrictions at only 40K miles, though that's more a function of his/her low mileage driving. It would have been best if Tesla had been straightforward about the need to reduce charge/regen rates for the sake of battery safety and longevity. There would have been backlash, but in my opinion, this would have been better for customer relations than the current hush-hush approach.
I do feel confident that Tesla has been using the best battery technology they reasonably can, and they are clearly working to make improvements. Pushing the envelope on EVs isn't easy, and I'm willing to cut Tesla some slack here. That said, I am an unabashed Tesla fan!
Do I consider these limitations to be "defects"? No. They reflect tradeoffs inherent to most if not all commercial lithium ion batteries. Our Model S has over 177K miles on the odometer, so we feel we've gotten very good use out of it, and we're optimistic that the current charge/regen restrictions will help keep the battery pack functioning for years to come.
I can understand the OP's frustration at encountering charge/regen restrictions at only 40K miles, though that's more a function of his/her low mileage driving. It would have been best if Tesla had been straightforward about the need to reduce charge/regen rates for the sake of battery safety and longevity. There would have been backlash, but in my opinion, this would have been better for customer relations than the current hush-hush approach.
I do feel confident that Tesla has been using the best battery technology they reasonably can, and they are clearly working to make improvements. Pushing the envelope on EVs isn't easy, and I'm willing to cut Tesla some slack here. That said, I am an unabashed Tesla fan!
whitex
Well-Known Member
So your argument is that the manufacturer only guarantees the vast majority usecase?
If you want to talk vast majority time, unless you are using it as a taxi/rideshare, your car spends the vast majority parked. So by your argument, even a dead car which won't even shift to drive satisfies is no different than the day you bought it, for the vast majority of the car's life.- Status
